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DPChallenge Forums >> Current Challenge >> foto skill vs. photoshop skill
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 08/07/2003 12:30:20 AM · #1
I think the photoshop images are really great to look at, I must however admit that I am glad the 'no rules' challenges are the exception. I was just starting to get the hang of voting on 'regular' shots and now I have a whole new twist to think of. Anyway great shots and thanks for the laughs for those of you who entered something on the humorous side.
 08/07/2003 12:49:58 AM · #2
My entry is "traditional," largely because I can really mutilate a picture if I try to post-process too much. My skills just aren't there. I am looking at some of these and going, "Dang. I didn't think that was possible." Some of you people are simply incredible. As far as voting, I guess I have a natural bias toward picture pictures not digital art (for reasons mentioned above), but i am fully aware of it, and trying to vote on the quality of the image in front of me!!


08/07/2003 01:02:00 AM · #3
There is a discussion addressing similar issues in the "Future Scores..." thread, if you are interested...
 08/07/2003 01:03:53 AM · #4
yea, I saw that right after I posted here.
 08/07/2003 02:55:20 AM · #5
After seeing and voting on "the future" challenge: As much as I love Photoshop (I earn living with it), I am glad that majority of our challenges have "no editing" rules. This site is about photography and not about image manipulation. The level of photo quality in our challenges would drop drastically if photomontages were allowed.

Message edited by author 2003-08-07 02:55:41.
 08/07/2003 04:09:19 AM · #6
Agreed, Timmi.

Or it would have to be a different type of challenge. Mixing the two wouldn't be a good idea.
 08/07/2003 05:52:41 AM · #7
I'm happy this challenge came along. I'm one of those dreaded "photoshop" entries. I really learned a lot of things this week that will help me with my regular photos.
 08/07/2003 05:56:49 AM · #8
Oh, Jacko, I wish we could become buddies. I could teach you a tiny bit of Photoshop, and you could teach me how to take cool photos like yours :-)))
 08/07/2003 06:16:46 AM · #9
I feel like if there are deep and hidden issues between what is photography and what is digital photography.

Especially in the past, the process of photography did not end after taking the shot but it did continue in the dark room where other parameters came into play to produce the final print.
I like to think that tools like Photoshop are for digital photography what the dark room was (and is) for classic/film-based photography.
In my opinion greater fairness would be achieved by distinguishing between:

Pure DP: photography with no alteration whatsover from the original shot, and

DP Art: (it would be unfair to call it Impure DP even if I am sure that's the way many people would like to call it). Where the original shot produced in the digital camera has been processed in a Photoshop-like tool later on.

And I definitely think that an extremely well-done website like DPChallenge can adapt and benefit from a proper, clear identification of the matter and by the ability to handle both types of DP.

Also I disagree with Timmy who fears that "The level of photo quality in our challenges would drop drastically if photomontages were allowed."

Think for a moment about it, and you will realize that by saying so, you are assuming that to produce photomontages is more difficult than to shot a perfect image in the first place.
That's why I disagree with the analysis of that risk.

I do not think that one process is easier of the other one.
I do not think that they are the same thing at all and, because of that, they should not be compared.

They both take input from a digital camera and, because of that, they can live peacefully and very interestingly along-side each other in separate competitions and galleries.
 08/07/2003 06:55:57 AM · #10
Antonio, I do not dispute that Photoshop is a great tool. I myself earn living with it. I love Photoshop and what it can do.

But you actually missed my point. Just because someone can do wonders in Photoshop doesn't make them better photographers. And I think this website is mainly intented for learning to take better photographs.

I am not against editing at all. What I was talking about was montages that actually make the pictures worse than better. There has to be a great care taken when image editing with Photoshop, otherwise it can get overdone and than starts looking worse. Do you know what I mean?

I also learned in my years of working with Photoshop, that if you get crappy image to start with, beyond the basic editing, you cannot make it into a beauty queen, unless you are a wizzard.

So to make my point again, in my opinion, at least I need to learn to take better pictures before I start twidling with them in Photoshop.
 08/07/2003 07:46:26 AM · #11
Timmi, I find this conversation quite interesting actually up to the point of being "dangerous"! ;)

I am not sure that this website is mainly intented for learning to take better photographs and I will look for a statement that will clarify this.
It could be just intented for enjoying dp and have fun with it.

Your further suggestions gave me a particularly provoking idea.

If the "Photoshop challenge" is just about testing Photoshop skills then, maybe, all partecipants should start from the same image,
being that image a kind of equivalent of the topic which is given in the more traditional challenges.

What do you think about this option?

I find it interesting, although limited. But, maybe, it could help introducing the concepts of digital creativity in a simpler and still funny way.
08/07/2003 07:46:50 AM · #12
Interestingly, I work in Photoshop daily and can work up a pretty mean montage, but this is one of the few "open everything" challenges where I just submitted a more or less straight shot.

I said to myself just because I can, doesn't mean I should.

:)


08/07/2003 07:55:51 AM · #13
Kolin, admit it ... you were too lazy to do a "montage". Rofl

Originally posted by magnetic9999:
Interestingly, I work in Photoshop daily and can work up a pretty mean montage, but this is one of the few "open everything" challenges where I just submitted a more or less straight shot.

I said to myself just because I can, doesn't mean I should.

:)

 08/07/2003 08:00:37 AM · #14
truthfully, if i hadnt had a shot that was perfect for the challenge, i just might've ..

hehe


08/07/2003 08:16:06 AM · #15
wow, just went through.

I'm really surprised how many people used pictures they didn't take.

Honestly even if I had done a collage that would never ever have occurred to me to not use my own work.

:P
 08/07/2003 09:36:11 AM · #16
which further highlights the rules changes that were pushed for several months ago - not free for all, not using any old picture you could find, not creating something from nothing, not digital art, just proper photo editing.

I know, I know, I can't be bothered any more.
 08/07/2003 09:45:44 AM · #17
well the funny part is that people scream and moan against crazy digital art.

but given the chance, that's exactly what they make.

ironic, ain't it?

lol

08/07/2003 10:19:05 AM · #18
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
well the funny part is that people scream and moan against crazy digital art.

but given the chance, that's exactly what they make.

ironic, ain't it?

lol


is one set of 'people' the same as the other set of 'people' ?

08/07/2003 10:37:52 AM · #19
the moaners and screamers are the ones that resist allowing dodge and burn and limited cloning.

Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
well the funny part is that people scream and moan against crazy digital art.

but given the chance, that's exactly what they make.

ironic, ain't it?

lol


is one set of 'people' the same as the other set of 'people' ?

 08/07/2003 10:45:42 AM · #20
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
the moaners and screamers are the ones that resist allowing dodge and burn and limited cloning.


maybe this will be used as vindication, even though it totally missed the point.
 08/07/2003 10:48:51 AM · #21
Hmmm. Don't think that argument applies Kollin. I did a PSP montage for this challenge - because the idea I envisioned called for it and it was allowed. I'm very pleased that the recent-ish rules debate came down on the side of staying the same, and very pleased that we can have an occasional challenge with the rules relaxed.

And of course, there were only 81 submissions.

Ed
 08/07/2003 10:52:10 AM · #22
What surprise me more is that people speaking sort of against Photoshop post-editing and comparing is to "impure shots". Well, should it be reminded that even non-digital photographers manipulate their shots in the darkroom??? Photomontage isn't something that came with digital but it exist since photography exists... Standard darkroom or digital darkroom, what's the difference? Don't we, as photographers, try to shoot the reality in a way it won't look "boring real", trying to find extraordinary angles to show something viewers haven't noticed with their eyes? this can be achieve in a darkroom with special effects, whether digital or not.


08/07/2003 10:53:30 AM · #23
Here is my 'future' challenge outtake.

Sorry I forgot to enter it by the deadline.




Seems about as valid as other ideas of 'no-holds barred' and about as pointless.
 08/07/2003 11:14:10 AM · #24
I am actually dissappointed by the majority of entries. I, too, look for the spirit of photography on this site. The rules were relaxed, but still stated for you to "take a photograph". I am amazed that with the amount of people we have had against relaxing editing rules to allow for items allowed in the traditional darkroom, that we would get digital art in this challenge.
I do not think I will be voting in this challenge.
 08/07/2003 11:19:07 AM · #25
Yes, I was under the impression we should "take" a photograph, not "make" one from other people's work. I think I will vote but I am afraid of being much too harsh on DA and stuff that uses images the person clearly isn't responsible for.
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