Disappointed... (Re: After the Game)

Mattel Barbie Photo Designer Digital Camera

10/26/2006 03:59:07 PM · #26

I think the last post is too specific and reinforces my other 2 posts in this thread.

edit to say, next to last post...B snuck in there while I was typing. :D

Message edited by author 2006-10-26 15:59:44.

digitalknight

10/26/2006 04:01:51 PM · #27

Thanks for that Dad - go tell the hall monitor will you?

OP has gone from a D70s to no camera in the course of this - I think we've all helped a great deal here.

Let's go find someone else who's suffering and beat them up too.

Tamron AF 28-200mm f/3.8-5.6 Aspherical XR IF Super Zoom for Pentax

10/26/2006 04:07:46 PM · #28

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by dallasdux:
... However, there were some entries IMO that tried to pass off somethings that are not considered a SPORT and focused on VENUE instead. Those were DNMC entries in my opinion. ...

Is this the kind of conversation (excuse me - "exchange of ideas") that should be going on while a challenge is in the voting stage?! BTW dallasdux, this isn't specifically directed at you only. Your comment was just one of many I've been reading lately.

lol. Not taking it personally in any way. I'm laughing because I actually edited out the part of my entry that said "Okay, I'm opening the door here for people to complain that my comments may influence voters, but since the author of the thread actually opened that door, I just walked right in"

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Personally I don't have an entry in this challenge, but that doesn't stop me from being substantially irked at this type of thread during an active challenge.

And I understand yours (and others) point of view on this issue. I don't read through them (generally) until I have already voted, BUT more importantly I Truly try to judge based on my own perceptions and not what others are commenting. I can only speak of myself though and I do apologize to those if I swayed your voting in any way due to my posts.

Edit: My best advice though to the masses would simply be don't read the threads of any current challenge title until you have already voted and are secure in your perceptions/scoring. This is kind of like saying, don't be around your friends when the new movie just game out last week or they may spoil it for you. What do you do? You make the effort to stay away from the influence rather than diving straight into the conversation.

Originally posted by glad2badad:

If you feel so strongly about what meets/doesn't meet the challenge when you are viewing or voting, then say so in the comment area available to you on the image page directly. Does that expose you too much? Afraid to stand up for what you really think when it gets on a personal level?

As you state above, I think this was directed to the masses and not me. But to answer for me....Nope, not afraid at all. Been doing that this morning. Actually first I went back (for the third time) to give every benefit of the doubt regarding DNMC and was really lenient. Then those that still fell in the bucket of DNMC, they got the comment of what I like about their photo, how it might do well in a Free Challenge, but how ultimately it falls into the category of DNMC in my opinion.

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Really. All of this bantering about DNMC this, and DNMC that - come on already.

The only way to make it go away is for those offenders to use good judgement IMO.

Message edited by author 2006-10-26 16:14:28.

Tamron AF 28-200mm f/3.8-5.6 Aspherical XR IF Super Zoom for Pentax

10/26/2006 04:11:29 PM · #29

Originally posted by gooc:

wanna advice ? forget it, have fun and move on.

Pretty good advice.

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

10/26/2006 04:14:04 PM · #30

Originally posted by dallasdux:

Originally posted by glad2badad:
Really. All of this bantering about DNMC this, and DNMC that - come on already.

The only way to make it go away is for those offenders to use good judgement IMO.

:D

That will never happen - plus who are we to judge what other people are thinking on their challenge entries? There have been many threads beating this dead horse - what's DNMC to one isn't always to someone else.

It's the banter about subject specifics that I think are out of line while a challenge is currently under voting. It's not right to make specific comments directed towards a group of images based on subject (big or small) and say that subject "xyz" is DNMC in a public forum.

mist

Canon EOS-60D

10/26/2006 04:16:21 PM · #31

Originally posted by Breanain:

... but I'm looking for a place where I can actually get helpful critiques. This doesn't seem to be it .. because as people have said, this is a challenge site, and it's about scoring/voting.

FWIW, I totally disagree with this. Comments during a challenge will, obviously, have a challenge-based slant, but you can get very useful and honest critiques both in and outside of challenges.

Tamron AF 28-200mm f/3.8-5.6 Aspherical XR IF Super Zoom for Pentax

10/26/2006 04:16:30 PM · #32

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by dallasdux:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Really. All of this bantering about DNMC this, and DNMC that - come on already.

The only way to make it go away is for those offenders to use good judgement IMO.

:D

That will never happen - plus who are we to judge what other people are thinking on their challenge entries?

Agreed, I can't change what they were thinking but I have pretty strong assumptions on some challenges that people 'knew better'.

edit: but we know the old saying about assumptions right? ;-)

I have no right to judge what they were thinking, but according to the grading (voting) scale, I have the right to Judge the photo against the challenge.

Message edited by author 2006-10-26 16:20:46.

Tamron AF 28-200mm f/3.8-5.6 Aspherical XR IF Super Zoom for Pentax

10/26/2006 04:18:13 PM · #33

Originally posted by glad2badad:

It's not right to make specific comments directed towards a group of images based on subject (big or small) and say that subject "xyz" is DNMC in a public forum.

The forum is public. The choice to enter it, read it, or particpate in it is private.

Edit: I would agree with you if the comments were posted in the Challenge Area and would influence the subject. But since it is a separate medium, I equate it to be about the same as a movie review. I have a pretty good idea of what I'm getting myself into (the thread's intent) if I choose to read it.

Message edited by author 2006-10-26 16:24:14.

10/26/2006 04:19:03 PM · #34

Originally posted by digitalknight:

Nobody in the hall around here. :D

As for the OP's choice to stay or leave, that's certainly not my burden. Had this thread gone the way I thought it should have in the beginning a lot of typing could have been eliminated.

Just in case you missed it - the first post put up after the OP's goes exactly like this:

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Since the challenge is active (currently in voting stage), this conversation is probably best suited for next week when the results are in. At that point you can post your image (challenge entry) and get some additional feedback on your image and perception from voters.

JMO of course. :D

Breanain

Acer Digital Camera 300

10/26/2006 04:20:15 PM · #35

Originally posted by mist:

FWIW, I totally disagree with this. Comments during a challenge will, obviously, have a challenge-based slant, but you can get very useful and honest critiques both in and outside of challenges.

Can you explain what FWIW means? Haven't seen that one before.

Tamron AF 28-200mm f/3.8-5.6 Aspherical XR IF Super Zoom for Pentax

10/26/2006 04:21:34 PM · #36

Originally posted by Breanain:

Originally posted by mist:
FWIW, I totally disagree with this. Comments during a challenge will, obviously, have a challenge-based slant, but you can get very useful and honest critiques both in and outside of challenges.

Can you explain what FWIW means? Haven't seen that one before.

FWIW:
"For What It's Worth" (or "If this statement adds anything...")

edit: took out the 'ever'

Message edited by author 2006-10-26 16:37:07.

10/26/2006 04:23:56 PM · #37

Originally posted by dallasdux:

Originally posted by glad2badad:

It's not right to make specific comments directed towards a group of images based on subject (big or small) and say that subject "xyz" is DNMC in a public forum.

The forum is public. The choice to enter it, read it, or particpate in it is private.

True, but there are rules to follow, both written and common courtesy, public forum or not.

Something like this perhaps? Specifically note saving "these discussions for after the end of voting". Doesn't apply just to outtakes. Forum Rule #2

Please do not discuss specific challenge entries or outtakes until voting has ended. Doing so can affect voting and commenting, so please save these discussions for after the end of the voting period. Please report any posts discussing these, and do not reply to them. Outtake threads posted early will be removed.

Tamron AF 28-200mm f/3.8-5.6 Aspherical XR IF Super Zoom for Pentax

10/26/2006 04:26:07 PM · #38

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by dallasdux:

Originally posted by glad2badad:

It's not right to make specific comments directed towards a group of images based on subject (big or small) and say that subject "xyz" is DNMC in a public forum.

The forum is public. The choice to enter it, read it, or particpate in it is private.

True, but there are rules to follow, both written and common courtesy, public forum or not.

Something like this perhaps? Specifically note saving "these discussions for after the end of voting". Doesn't apply just to outtakes. Forum Rule #2

Please do not discuss specific challenge entries or outtakes until voting has ended. Doing so can affect voting and commenting, so please save these discussions for after the end of the voting period. Please report any posts discussing these, and do not reply to them. Outtake threads posted early will be removed.

Good point, but the wording mentions 'Specific' entries whereas I think broad generalizations were made rather than specific images pointed out. Just playing a bit of devil's advocate here.

edit: corrected spelling and added word 'entries'.

Message edited by author 2006-10-26 16:45:11.

Breanain

Acer Digital Camera 300

10/26/2006 04:27:17 PM · #39

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Please report any posts discussing these, and do not reply to them.

If you have a problem with the thread and the amount of typing going on, as you stated earlier, please follow the advice you posted.

My apologies for not following proper etiquette, and the discussion it sparked that has upset you so.

Elaine

Canon EOS R5

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS II USM Lens

10/26/2006 04:28:02 PM · #40

Originally posted by Breanain:

...but I'm looking for a place where I can actually get helpful critiques. This doesn't seem to be it (though on a side note, your comment was helpful, and I marked it accordingly), because as people have said, this is a challenge site, and it's about scoring/voting.

I think the comments are more about the photo, what is good or bad, and helpful tips on improveing when the photo meets the challenge. I sometimes leave a DNMC comment and also comment on the photo, but usually just say why I think it is DNMC. Meeting the challenge is important, otherwise it is just another free study. Pleasing the DPC voter is like pleasing a client. If asked for a photo of a calculator, he probably would not want a photo of a remote even though they do have some similarities. Then once you get some photos of calculators, he can decide how good they are and if it meets his needs.

Tamron AF 28-200mm f/3.8-5.6 Aspherical XR IF Super Zoom for Pentax

10/26/2006 04:35:44 PM · #41

Originally posted by chaimelle:

Meeting the challenge is important, otherwise it is just another free study.

Thank You, Thank You, Thank You, Thank You, Thank You. ..... SOOOO Glad to hear another DPC'er with this point of view.

mist

Canon EOS-60D

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

10/26/2006 04:36:38 PM · #42

Originally posted by franyoung2002:

I do think that the only confusion about this particular challenge is that while the title of the challenge is "....Game", the further details mention a field.

The challenge description doesn't mention a field at all.

Photograph a "sporting venue after the game is over and the players and people have gone home".

What people define as a sport and a venue will then feed into what they consider meets the challenge or not. Some people will deliberately or accidentally read the description wrongly and ascribe different parameters to the voting. It's part and parcel of the whole thing.

CEJ

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF-S 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

10/26/2006 04:38:14 PM · #43

I didn't read this whole thread, just the first few posts. Then I went and viewed each image in the challenge (no votes cast yet though). There were only a few that I felt didn't meet the challenge, one blatently the other only by title and one I haven't made up my mind on yet.

I didn't shoot for this challenge. But I thought about it as the college has many sports facilities of all kinds always with something going on. I figured there would have to be clear evidence that a game HAD to have been played there - garbage on the floor, debris of some sort left behind, towels left in a dugout or something along those lines. Otherwise you could walk into ANY sports facility and shoot when there wasn't a game and who would know? It was empty which meant it met the challenge so to speak.

Anyway, with that train of thought I didn't shoot. The college is not too friendly with cameras on campus AFTER events I found out. Especiallly when it looks like you are photographing the facility in some way since nothing else is there. Oh well.

Breanain

Acer Digital Camera 300

10/26/2006 04:55:51 PM · #44

Requested that this be closed (hope that's ok with the moderators), since many people seem to have an issue with it. Again, my apologies for a breach of etiquette. I'll certainly be visiting DPC a lot to gain inspiration, but I'll leave the numberical stuff up to other people I think.

jemison

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

10/26/2006 05:08:52 PM · #45

Originally posted by Breanain:

Jemison, thanks for pointing that out. I do see that, but I'm unclear who to contact. This page (//www.dpchallenge.com/help_contact.php) doesn't have anything specific for this purpose. Should I contact the "General Inquiry" people?

BeeCee, thanks for that post. I think that I had very different expectations for this site than what, in reality, it is. I appreciate your thoughts and the warning about the DQ, but I'm looking for a place where I can actually get helpful critiques. This doesn't seem to be it (though on a side note, your comment was helpful, and I marked it accordingly), because as people have said, this is a challenge site, and it's about scoring/voting.

I'd contact the "General Inquiry" contact, but would encourage you not to do so. This is your first entry, and while I can understand your disappointment at not getting the type of critiques you hoped for, I also notice that you haven't left any comments for others yet. Notice that the word is comments. With the large volume of entries it is really asking a lot to expect in-depth critiques from voters. If you really want that, be sure to check the box under your entry to request a critique from the "DPC Critique Club". Remember that they are volunteers and are quite overloaded with requests most of the time and are thus not always able to fulfill a request. It might also be helpful to get an idea of the type comments typically received by looking at others images and scrolling down.

Don't give up on DPC is my advise. I have learned infinitely more here than from any other site I've tried. I am often disappointed by the reaction I get (or don't get) to photos posted, but the occasional surprise more than makes up for it.

Message edited by author 2006-10-26 17:09:31.

ace flyman

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

10/26/2006 05:18:15 PM · #46

I'm with ya on this one Barry,,,,,thread getting to close to discussing entries and has identified shots in the challenge.....It should be locked.....imo

Originally posted by glad2badad:

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

10/26/2006 05:24:31 PM · #47

Originally posted by Breanain:

OK -- rememeber the point is to have fun and learn something. I've never come close to a ribbon, but have learned quite a bit. : )