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DPChallenge Forums >> Tips, Tricks, and Q&A >> B&W/Sepia Conversion
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 02/08/2007 11:12:50 PM · #1
I'm pulling this out as a separate discussion from another thread...

Originally posted by Delta_6:


5.28 for the very best damn shot I ever got. I am depressed and discouraged.


The shot itself ain't bad IMO. I would have preferred to see the hands, but really it's the post-processing conversion that killed your score. Judging from the color version in your portfolio, you had a lot of image to work with, but lost much of the detail and contrast when you converted it. Compare your entry to this version:

02/08/2007 11:12:56 PM · #2
Originally posted by Delta_6:
WHOA! How did you do that??? I agree entirely with your assessment but I am a PS beginner and don't know nearly a quarter of the tricks. Please advise.


Practice. My first B&W entry wasn't so hot either, but you can learn a lot by watching the forums and reading descriptions in the comments boxes.

Starting with your original file...



I usually go to Levels first, hit the Options button, and click each of the three algorithm choices to see if any of them dramatically improve the shot. There's a lot more you can do with Levels, but this is a basic start. If you see one you like, select it and click OK. Now go to the Edit menu and Fade Levels if desired because that one-button approach will often clip your shadows or highlights.

Next is the Big Kahuna: the Channel Mixer. A lot of beginners (myself included at one time) will just hit the Saturation slider or use some basic Sepia adjustment to convert from color. DON'T DO THAT!! Go to your Channels menu and click each of the RGB channels one at a time. See the difference? Your image has a lot of reds in it, so the red channel is very heavy. The green channel has much better tones and detail, and the blue channel has most of the noise.

Now, open the Channel Mixer and click the monochome button at the bottom. Note that Red is set to 100%. If you just use Saturation to do your B&W conversion, then you're only using that red channel (yuck). We want to keep the yummy detail and tones in the green channel! The goal here is to balance the channels to make the most of the information in your file. In this case, you want to use mostly green and then some red to control the midtones (ie- her tan). Avoid the blue because that's where the noise is. Start by putting Red at 20% and Green at 80%, then play around with those two sliders until you're satisfied with the results. The blackest areas should be black, the lightest areas should be white, and you should aim for the richest tones you can achieve while still maintaining enough contrast that your image doesn't look gray and muddy. Click OK when you reach grayscale nirvana.

Next is the toning. Open HSL (the Hue/Saturation menu) and click the Colorize button. Pick a hue you like, but don't go nuts with the saturation or you'll get bright halos of color. 5-15% saturation is usually plenty IMO, but I went a little overboard on this example for a better comparison to your entry.

We're mostly done. This is a good place to touch up with a soft brush by dodging the eyes (I only did the irises) and hair, and burning the midtones on the shadow areas of the skin. Set your brush to a 5-10% exposure to keep from overdoing it. I also used Noise Ninja and a Blur tool to reduce the grainy appearance of the background.

Last step: reduce your image to 640px (or whatever size you need) and use Unsharp Mask to restore the detail. Lately I've been using two passes: the first one with an Amount of 30-60%, a Radius of 0.5-0.8 and then second pass for fine detail with an Amount of 30-50%, a Radius of 0.3-0.5 (both with a Threshold of 0). Save for Web and you're all set!

Hope that helps!

Message edited by author 2007-02-09 08:44:08.
 02/08/2007 11:30:40 PM · #3
You lost me when you got to levels but I thought there was nothing I liked there so went to channel mixer, I am now konfuzed. I am using PS 7.0.

Message edited by author 2007-02-08 23:31:05.
 02/08/2007 11:48:40 PM · #4
Just follow the steps. Click Monochrome at the bottom of the Channel Mixer dialog box and play around with the red and green sliders. With a good exposure, the sliders should "add up" to 100. Go higher for a lighter image and lower for a darker one.
 02/09/2007 12:09:49 AM · #5
HSL?

02/09/2007 12:14:25 AM · #6
Can't you just draw pictures, Shannon? ;D


02/09/2007 12:27:07 AM · #7
Originally posted by scalvert:
Just follow the steps. Click Monochrome at the bottom of the Channel Mixer dialog box and play around with the red and green sliders. With a good exposure, the sliders should "add up" to 100. Go higher for a lighter image and lower for a darker one.


i usually mess with channels for b&w ... a lot of red mostly, to create nicer skin tones.

but i never thought of making the channel amounts = 100. do you advise that scalvert? or just say that it's the mid point and make adjustments based on what you think is right?
 02/09/2007 12:54:59 AM · #8
*Cough* ... HSL?
 02/09/2007 01:15:26 AM · #9


There are several things about your original image that make a b/w conversion a little more difficult. The PRIMARY problem is the level of red in the skin. Red likes to convert to a muddy gray with most methods of b/w conversion. I did a simple channel mixer conversion here by using 50% on red and 55% on green. I also applied one of my own warming curves to it after the conversion...
 02/09/2007 01:35:41 AM · #10
Originally posted by Greetmir:
*Cough* ... HSL?


Hue Saturation Luminence(?)

I have found that making the sliders *does* make a difference. It just seems to keep things a bit more "clean" in my opinion.

also, I have noticed that the blue channel almost always has the most noise. Why is this?
 02/09/2007 01:38:35 AM · #11
Originally posted by karmat:
Originally posted by Greetmir:
*Cough* ... HSL?


Hue Saturation Luminence(?)

I have found that making the sliders *does* make a difference. It just seems to keep things a bit more "clean" in my opinion.

also, I have noticed that the blue channel almost always has the most noise. Why is this?


Which channel has the most noise will depend on the color dominance of the original image.
02/09/2007 01:41:14 AM · #12
guess i take a lot of pictures of blue stuff . ..
 02/09/2007 01:42:34 AM · #13
Originally posted by karmat:
guess i take a lot of pictures of blue stuff . ..


A majority of my noise finds its way into the red channel.
02/09/2007 02:20:57 AM · #14
Originally posted by karmat:

also, I have noticed that the blue channel almost always has the most noise. Why is this?


Most images don't have a lot of blue light, so the blue channel, in and of itself, tends to be underexposed, and the noise is more obvious in underexposed areas of an image. If you try lighting something with a very blue light, you'll see what I mean; it won't be as noisy, but the red channel will be noisier.

R.
 02/09/2007 02:23:54 AM · #15
I hadn't really worked on sepia toning before but this is what I got. Here are the steps(in the comments also.

First I ran neat image to clean the background up some and then erased the effect on the girl. Next I used a gradient map with black and white colors selected. Next I used levels and went into each channel to get a mix of color. with the sliders for red channel(0, 1.16, 255), green channel(0, .94, 255), blue channel(0, .9, 254). Next I used a curve to pull the shadows darker(inside the first quadrant). Thats it.

I kind of just came up with this way to do it right now, but I think it is similar to channel mixer.
I forgot I did a slight dodge to the eyes on its own layer and the faded the effect back.

Message edited by author 2007-02-09 02:25:06.
 02/09/2007 02:25:04 AM · #16


Lovely girl. This CS3 Black & White adjustment layer conversion probably has too much contrast. Curves tone made from Tone Hacker complements of RKT.
02/09/2007 02:41:45 AM · #17


1. Create levels adjustment layer, open levels dialogue box, click on "options", use default "enhance per channel contrast" but check the box "snap neutral midtones": the color cast goes away and you have a very nice, subtle color starting point.

2. Create a duplicate of the BG layer, and merge the levels layer into that; this is your new base image.

3. It needs to be sharpened up now; I used "Focus magic", a Photoshop plug-in, but you can use USM to do this also.

4. Now do the channel mixer thing; I did it at 46 red, 54 green, -16 blue, and +12 on "constant"

5. Next is a hue/sat adjustment layer, set to colorize, and get a tone you like out of that.

6. A selective color adjustment layer allowed me to add a smidge of black to the white channel (+3 only) to slightly tone down the brightest areas of her skin.

7. Finally, a gradient in multiply mode was applied to the very bottom to mute the railing.

R.
 02/09/2007 05:26:25 AM · #18
Wow ... you guys are great! ... I cannot decide whether I like Shannon's Normal Rockwellian sharper treatment or your softer higher key approach, Robert ... but they both look great ... ESPECIALLY considering you both started with the low res DPC version.

Kudos to you both.
 02/09/2007 09:51:44 AM · #19
Ya, ya... These guys always amaze me... Keep doing it!

EDIT: Thanks for the tutorials!

Message edited by author 2007-02-09 09:52:15.
 02/09/2007 08:34:42 PM · #20
Folks, thanks so much for your tutelage in this issue, I appreciate it heaps!
 02/09/2007 09:25:55 PM · #21
Here's one more take...



Editing details are on the image.
 02/12/2007 10:09:16 PM · #22
Those are all nice edits and certainly would have improved Delta_6's score had he used them but for me I liked the original edit better. Like what Jutilda said during the challenge it had a very nostalgic feel to it which is what I really liked about it too but now with the re-edits it's all but lost.

Message edited by author 2007-02-12 22:10:13.
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