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02/01/2004 05:17:46 PM · #1 |
| I'm writing this in a pissed off mood. The most common comment Im getting is that people dont seem to be understanding how my picture is fitting the challenge I participated in. Its my believe that if people would just look at the photos for a couple of seconds and think then they should be reable to understand the photos alot more. But after this Im fearing that I'll have to change my tactics and shoot shallow and obvious photos so that the majority can understand them. I don't care if people just think they're plain ugly, to bright, to dark, to sharpend or whatever, just as long as they have given them self the time to understand |
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02/01/2004 06:43:50 PM · #2 |
People tend to gravitate toward images that are in some way eye catching; whether it be color, subject matter, contrast, composition or a combination of these elements. If the image is strong enough to get an initial reaction, people tend to read deeper into it and then get the "meaning" behind the shot. Or at least thats what I figure, even though I haven't been able to achieve this myself. :)
Cheers,
Owen
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02/01/2004 06:57:32 PM · #3 |
DPC is not a good venue to display photos that require much time or thought. There are so many new photos here every week that it's about impossible to spend any significant amount of time on any single image.
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02/01/2004 07:00:06 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by Grundle:
I'm writing this in a pissed off mood. The most common comment Im getting is that people dont seem to be understanding how my picture is fitting the challenge I participated in. Its my believe that if people would just look at the photos for a couple of seconds and think then they should be reable to understand the photos alot more. But after this Im fearing that I'll have to change my tactics and shoot shallow and obvious photos so that the majority can understand them. I don't care if people just think they're plain ugly, to bright, to dark, to sharpend or whatever, just as long as they have given them self the time to understand |
Despite some advantages, this is a malady which appears to plague a few people, myself included. My advice is: don't please the many, please the few.
The many cannot be pleased, a few, however, can. Buck the trend and cultivate a little plot you can call your own. Pop kills the fish. :-)
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02/01/2004 07:11:35 PM · #5 |
I say, don't worry. My own philosophy, which explains why I miss so many challenges, is that the point is not to just go out and shoot something that obviously fits the challenge. If you don't produce something artistic, or at least something YOU feel is artistic, why bother?
If you follow the above philosphy as well, you may not win the challenges (heck, I've never been above 85%, and most often not that good!), but you will have something to show for it afterwards, and something to truly be proud of. |
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02/01/2004 07:51:03 PM · #6 |
zeuszen
Very well said, I could not have said it better.
Originally posted by zeuszen:
Despite some advantages, this is a malady which appears to plague a few people, myself included. My advice is: don't please the many, please the few.
The many cannot be pleased, a few, however, can. Buck the trend and cultivate a little plot you can call your own. Pop kills the fish. :-) |
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02/01/2004 07:54:16 PM · #7 |
This thread reminds me of a photo posted several challenges ago.
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02/01/2004 09:13:20 PM · #8 |
Sometimes, just sometimes, an entry's connection to the challenge theme is tenuous at best, or simply a personalised product of the photog's mind at worst.
I'm very aware of the malaise that overcomes us when voting on 100s of images per week. We don't have the mental energy to make that extra effort to discover the link. This is a feature of life at DPC, not a failing or a strength. Also, this reflects how we judge images around us anyway.
(If this were in the rant forum, I wouldn't have responded.) |
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02/01/2004 11:53:13 PM · #9 |
Why be angry, though? That's what has been surprising me - how many people seem to get angry when others don't share their aesthetic likes and dislikes. If they did, we'd all wear the same color of clothes every day, there'd only be one kind of movie ever made, and we'd all have the same photographs on our walls. The variety itself is normal.
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02/01/2004 11:58:05 PM · #10 |
If you make it catchy enough, people will look longer to find out. Images that are tough to interpret and do not have the visual appeal people are looking for will be passed over quickly. Well, at least I will pass over them quickly, I don't want to speak for everyone. But if you can make it visually appealing, people will take the time to find out what it is. I think that's a lot of the success with this pic.
Bob
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02/02/2004 07:45:52 AM · #11 |
Originally posted by carlacryptic:
Why be angry, though? That's what has been surprising me - how many people seem to get angry when others don't share their aesthetic likes and dislikes. If they did, we'd all wear the same color of clothes every day, there'd only be one kind of movie ever made, and we'd all have the same photographs on our walls. The variety itself is normal. |
I wasn't pissed off about that. I said that I didn't care if people thought my photos were ugly or whatever just as long as they tried to understand them. You must be one of those people;) read carefully ;* |
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02/02/2004 08:10:45 AM · #12 |
If it's worth trying to understand a photograph then people will try I belive -
if it's down right awful and there is no obvious connection to the challenge then putting 'doesn't meet challenge' is an easy comment.
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02/04/2004 11:42:54 PM · #13 |
Grundle: You misunderstood my comments. My point is that your view that people aren't trying to understand your pictures may not represent what's actually happening. It may seem obvious to you what works and what doesn't but that is based on your own perceptions and experience. It's the same for every one of us. I thought my comments would be easy to understand but they weren't and that's because we have different ways of looking at the same statements.
Maybe a better way of saying what I was trying to say is that I don't see what anyone would gain from not trying to understand another person's intent. To me, the fact that people don't automatically understand each other's viewpoints is not something people have to work at. On the contrary, it's something that is hard to overcome but which most of us attempt nonetheless.
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02/05/2004 01:39:53 AM · #14 |
| My current Garage entry is being hammered for the same reason: apparently it's off-topic. When the challenge finishes, I'm on for a long, long rant. (Can't give details yet.) |
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02/06/2004 02:40:29 PM · #15 |
I've also been chastised by commenters who don't understand how my photos meet the challenge but, although it sometimes amazes me, it doesn't make me angry or feel like ranting. Mostly, it gives me insight into how other people think and react, which is invaluable. I take and share photographs which mean something to me personally and know full well that there's only a small chance other people will see in them what I see. But, what's interesting is how many different reactions the same photograph can produce and, sometimes, how many different ways a person can like the same image, totally for different reasons, many of which I couldn't have imagined during the act of creating the shot.
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02/06/2004 02:57:07 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
DPC is not a good venue to display photos that require much time or thought. There are so many new photos here every week that it's about impossible to spend any significant amount of time on any single image. |
How many times have you said this John? LOL
Do you just copy and paste this now, or do you write it out everytime.
Too bad there isn't some way we could have this message automatically sent to each new member's email address! |
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02/06/2004 04:10:36 PM · #17 |
John S is right, though. Not to imply that all top placing photos are sell-outs, but it's really easy to figure out what will score high on DPC. And once you know what will, you can choose to follow that pattern, place high, and get a nice ego boost - or, let loose your creativity and stray from the norm..bascially guaranteeing yourself a poor finish. Either way, there's some great photos here that place fairly low and I'd hate for those photographers to NOT post them because of before mentioned scoring.
Message edited by author 2004-02-06 16:11:07. |
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02/10/2004 04:44:45 PM · #18 |
I think that's the point, though, to do what you need to do to grow, keep learning, keep stretching yourself. For some people, winning is the most important thing and they may choose to try and pander to the supposed tastes of the majority of voters. But, for others, the challenge is the important thing, and finding ways to challenge oneself to do new and different things is fun/instructive/crucial. Sometimes maybe participating in challenges is a way to become part of the community here and that's cool, too.
The only way artists can grow is to take risks and I look at photography as an artform so I am more interested in competing with myself and expanding the boundaries of my own aesthetic than popularity. As a professional photographer, I have to do things to suit other people but as an artist, I only do things to suit myself. And what suits me most is figuring out where I'm in a rut and breaking out of it, and/or following whatever muse is beckoning to me at a given moment.
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02/11/2004 07:41:35 AM · #19 |
| my most common comments are probably: i don't get it... or: too over-exposed... would've liked to have seen this in color... nonsense |
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02/11/2004 08:12:32 AM · #20 |
goldberry nailed it.
and that's one of the most maddening things (for me) about dpc. my personal esthetics and interests are actually very different than what does well here.
i've chosen, in the past, to sell out, and done really well. but i have to totally go against my own vision to do so. even though, one time, i got first place with a shot that was 100% my vision, not pandered at all, most of the time I feel like I have to have a split personality to participate here.
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02/11/2004 01:07:39 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
John S is right, though. Not to imply that all top placing photos are sell-outs, but it's really easy to figure out what will score high on DPC. |
Try the star spangled banner for one, even if it does not meet the challenge very well... To me I would rather get a low average and enjoy my photography and the photos I submit than sell-out to get a high average. Apart from that most of my reasonable photos never go anywhere near DPC as they don't meet the challenges.
I think its always best to take DPC at face value along with your score and comments you get, partly because people don't lok at photos and partly because we all have different tastes -- and thats a good thing :-) |
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02/20/2004 02:14:28 AM · #22 |
sn4psh07: If I ever get more than a 5 for something that is what I actually like to see and produce, I'll be surprised. I like the challenges, though, because I like having to narrow down my options on a regular basis - it takes me places I might not otherwise go with my photography. The comments and voting are not very much fun most of the time. But, once in a while, I meet someone interesting through a comment that actually responds to what I did in the photograph instead of what people want me to do. The oddest thing for me, since I was trained in the arts before I started taking my photography seriously, is the way people tell you something is wrong that you're doing when it's not about right or wrong, it's about self-expression and artistic vision. I'll photograph something because I like how it looks and people will tell me I should have changed it to make it more palatable. If I wanted it to be 'palatable', I wouldn't have taken the photo in the first place. :) My husband, who trained as a photographer instead keeps telling me it's because most photographers worry more about how a picture is taken (what camera, what lens, what film, what lighting, etc.) than what the picture says or shows. Maybe he's right. Also, he sees this site as being a bit like a camera club and that camera clubs are notorious for not being into creative (read that 'unique') points of view. So, I try to take it all with a very big grain of salt. Sometimes it's hard to get that much salt down without gagging though. :)
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02/20/2004 02:35:24 AM · #23 |
When a challenge has a title a visual image (usually) pops into my head. Thinking for a day or 2 gets me a few more. Then I begin to whittle it down to what i can actually do - based upon time, lighting requirements, skills, etc. I do try to be creative and at least a bit unique.
I definitely try to be technically good. This is where i may be harshest in my comments (most common comments from me: too dark and this time 'bad DOF'. But then, many folks seem to enter for no reason - responses to my comments are often 'did it last night just so i'd have an entry' type of thing. Many responses are rather defensive, or get very explanatory.
I do sometimes comment 'I don't get it' or 'How does this fit the challenge' My defense to those is that this is a visual medium - and my first impression of a pic, since i KNOW the title/category before seeing it, is whether or not I see the connection. A paragraph of explanation should not be needed in a photo contest!
I think some people TRY to make the connection as tenous as possible. Have a challenge of 'tree' and we will get flower close ups. perhaps apple blossoms, which grow on trees, but the title is NOT flowers. I expect to see a tree or trees or even a pile of firewood or a logging camp. a sleeping cat in front of a fireplace does not say 'tree' to me.
Conflict is very wide open...there will be MANY comments regarding 'does not fit...' i fear! I have several ideas, and will try one tomorrow. Trying to be unique, understandable, learn something (as in try something different) and have fun. I try for the best pic i can, technically and compositionally.
Let the chips fall where they will. and a proper pic of htat just might say 'tree' to me.
chris |
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02/20/2004 03:25:50 AM · #24 |
Sometimes it's extremely difficult to find a subject that is both obvious to the viewer and unique to the other challenge entries. I usually dismiss the first 4 ideas that pop into my head as "cliche" and try to dig deeper for visual subject matter. If I can't seem to think of an idea that is easily expressed in a single frame, I go back to the "cliche" ideas and figure out if I can shoot one of them in an interesting way. If I can't come up with an interesting, easily understandable subject nor can I shoot something obvious in an interesting way...I usually decline from entering the challenge.
In the case of the Zodiac challenge, each sign has numerous things that could be used as a photographic subject. This can sometimes get very confusing to someone who isn't well versed in Astrology.
For example, Taurus:
Symbol: The Bull
Glyph: 
Colors: Light Blue, Pink, Lemon
Metal: Copper
Gem: Emerald
Flowers: Rose, Poppy, Violet
Animal: Cattle
Herbs: Sorrel, Spearmint
Countries: Ireland, Switzerland, Sweden, Russia
All of these could, theoretically be used to describe "Taurus". Of course a lot of them are pretty far fetched, like the Herb Sorrell, but as far as I (a non astrologer) am concerned, anything but a Bull would be off topic.
Most of the time, I think you have to assume your audience won't know very much about the subject you're shooting.
Message edited by author 2004-02-20 04:56:43. |
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02/20/2004 04:34:09 AM · #25 |
| I think that most people just skip through the pictures. They go to the next one almost as soon as the one they're looking at is downloading. As a result, I get a lot of those comments about "not fitting the challenge", or not "holding my interest". If those people actually bothered to really look at the pictures, they would see just how those pictures do fit the challenge. I think this particular attitude discourages creativity and as a result, we tend to see the same sort of shots again and again. I've lost count of all the wine glasses, attractive looking women, water drops on glass, and animal pictures I've seen in the last few months. |
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