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DPChallenge Forums >> Tips, Tricks, and Q&A >> Loss of EXIF information
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 02/21/2004 09:44:29 AM · #1
I only recently found out about this EXIF thing, and looking back on some old unaltered photographs I can see how useful it is. My problem is that when I open and then re-save any JPEG from the camera, all of the EXIF information is lost. This happens whether I edit the image or not, and the program I have is Paint Shop Pro 7. Is there any way that I can preserve or reintroduce the data after editing, or is this meant to happen? Also, does opening a JPEG file and then saving as another JPEG file reduce the quality any further?
 02/21/2004 09:50:18 AM · #2
If you open it in ps or psp rename it or place the edited copy in a different folder so as not to change the EXIF of the original!You will not change the EXIF if you din`t save it from one of these programs.Yes the EXIF is supposed to be changed if used in a editable program and you can not reintroduce the original EXIF data.If you save your renamed files in maximum size you will not reduce quality.

Message edited by author 2004-02-21 10:07:38.
 02/21/2004 10:08:27 AM · #3
If you open a photo that is saved on your hard drive and do not change anything, you can just close it!! The original is still on the hard drive in the original condition. If you save it to the same folder with the same name, you overwrite what is already there.

Theron
 02/21/2004 04:32:27 PM · #4
I'll try to tell you what I do, step by step, so that you can see where I go wrong. My real reason for asking the question was that, since Wednesday, I have a camera of my own and I am seeing the same problem occur; I hope to avoid many wasted hours recording the EXIF data elsewhere. Anyway, this is what I do:

1. Take a picture with the camera. Place it in a folder on our computer.

2. Double click the image to open it in PSP 7, then edit it etc.

3. Go to File > Save As or File > Save Copy As.

4. Scroll to select JPEG from the list of file types, then click options and make sure the slider is all the way to the left (compression factor = 1).

5. Enter a file name different to the original name, then click Save. At the bottom of a screen a blue bar briefly fills up to indicate that it is saving.

6. The EXIF information is now gone.

Also, about the saving-as-JPEG thing, I just wondered if the compression that obviously takes place is cumulative (i.e. does repeatedly opening and saving reduce the picture quality or not?)
 02/21/2004 04:36:57 PM · #5
I know for a fact that continually opening and closing jpg is the worst thing you can do. Save as tif or similar, and you won't degrade your image, then save as jpg when you are ready to upload.
As for the exif info, I don't use paintshop, but as the others said, if you keep the original untouched, then you will always have that info. It's important to save the original for DPchallenge anyway, so burn it to cd or something so you always have it.
 02/21/2004 04:41:24 PM · #6
First, you are doing the right thing, saving to a different file. Make sure you keep the originals, just in case. Yes, I know they take alot of space, but hard drive storage is cheap.
Second, not all programs wipe out the exif info, however some of the best still do, at least at times. I was unaware of this behavior in PSP, but older versions of Photoshop were known to do this. Photoshop CS still does it if you "save for web". It is a PITA, since I hate to go dig for the matching original if the exif data is gone from the edited version; I still want it there for reference. A couple ways out of this:

- Switch to software that does not eliminate EXIF info
- Reapply exif info from the original with a program like Exifer
- Live with it, and keep the originals with the edited versions

The third option is what I do for challenge entries, simply because the ORIGINAL is required if verification is needed (DQ request or high placement in a challenge).
Otherwise, I use Photoshop CS and don't use "save for web" unless I need to be anal about the file size.

TMI?
 02/21/2004 05:54:39 PM · #7
A newly installed Exifer just crashed my system three times. Exit exifer.
 02/21/2004 05:58:24 PM · #8
Might want to give this one a try.
Free and works well.
Of course if you just crashed three times, you might not be in the mood for trying things. :)
//home.pacbell.net/michal_k/
 02/21/2004 06:04:24 PM · #9
Funny this should come up. I'm having a problem with showing proof for my second place shot in the black challenge, "Winning Shot or Window Breaks." I submitted the original file a few days ago just to be safe in case it was needed. Today I got an email back from the admins saying that the file I sent did not appear to be an original out of camera file. As far as I know it is. I opened it in photoshop, worked on it, and used the "save as" function with a new name. I'm not sure what's going on with it exactly and I'm hoping there is something I can do. The photos are obviously not on my camera anymore and I really thought that the photos I kept were my originals and that what I did with them in photoshop wouldn't mess them up. I guess sometimes a hand can slip on something. I know my photo looks exactly the same as it did out of the camera, that's for sure. I'm hoping there is another file on my computer from the burst mode I used to get the shot that still has the exif info that they will accept. I'm going to download that progam and see what I can find out...

well, thanks to that program I now see that the exif info on the file I sent is fine! Thanks.

Message edited by author 2004-02-21 18:11:14.
 02/21/2004 06:09:13 PM · #10
I use GIMP 1.3, which is at least as good as PSP. It will not destroy Exif data unless you specifically tell it to. You can open a JPEG, do whatever you want to it, save it, and the Exif data will be preserved without having to do anything special. And of course, GIMP is free.
 02/21/2004 06:24:33 PM · #11
Originally posted by JasonPR:
Funny this should come up. I'm having a problem with showing proof for my second place shot in the black challenge, "Winning Shot or Window Breaks." I submitted the original file a few days ago just to be safe in case it was needed. Today I got an email back from the admins saying that the file I sent did not appear to be an original out of camera file. As far as I know it is. I opened it in photoshop, worked on it, and used the "save as" function with a new name. I'm not sure what's going on with it exactly and I'm hoping there is something I can do. The photos are obviously not on my camera anymore and I really thought that the photos I kept were my originals and that what I did with them in photoshop wouldn't mess them up. I guess sometimes a hand can slip on something. I know my photo looks exactly the same as it did out of the camera, that's for sure. I'm hoping there is another file on my computer from the burst mode I used to get the shot that still has the exif info that they will accept. I'm going to download that progam and see what I can find out...

well, thanks to that program I now see that the exif info on the file I sent is fine! Thanks.


Jason, yes, the EXIF info may be still there, but since you opened and re-saved in PS, what changes is the "software" tag; it will now say "Adobe Photoshop", identifying that the file was saved from PS. Hope you can find an original. It is a great shot.
 02/21/2004 06:41:09 PM · #12
In psp on the original go to image>image information>exif information. I save all my sigma raws files as tiff in psp and the info is always there on them. With my fuji, the original info is there on the original jpeg. It is stripped if any editing is done on the pictures and isn't carried over to a "save as" picture.
 02/21/2004 06:59:57 PM · #13
Granted it will waste your time when you are taking pictures, it's recommended to not format your memory card until it's time to use it again, just in case you have a hardrive or other failure.
 02/21/2004 08:19:22 PM · #14
I never resaved it in photoshop. I saved the new version only. Yeah, I should have just kept the photos on the camera, but it gets annoying having to select which ones to copy over every time when you go out on a new photo shoot.
 02/21/2004 08:41:33 PM · #15
Originally posted by JasonPR:
I never resaved it in photoshop. I saved the new version only. Yeah, I should have just kept the photos on the camera, but it gets annoying having to select which ones to copy over every time when you go out on a new photo shoot.

I just copy every file from my camera card to a folder. Anything I open and edit is saved to a new file (usually Photoshop format, then to TIFF, then the final to JPEG).

I can't believe you really think that opening the file in Photoshop and using the "Save As" command is the same as saving the original file.
 02/21/2004 08:41:43 PM · #16
Originally posted by JasonPR:
I never resaved it in photoshop. I saved the new version only. Yeah, I should have just kept the photos on the camera, but it gets annoying having to select which ones to copy over every time when you go out on a new photo shoot.


Try this: When you move them from your camera, move to an "originals" directory, then copy from there to a working directory. Make sure both your originals and working files ge backed up regularly. You'll always have a copy of the original in more than one place, and you willhave the card clear to shoot.
 02/21/2004 09:20:24 PM · #17
Originally posted by GeneralE:


I can't believe you really think that opening the file in Photoshop and using the "Save As" command is the same as saving the original file.


huh? what? I don't. I don't see what would make you think I do...
02/22/2004 07:58:08 AM · #18
Thank you all for your responses. As a further question, does GIMP have all of the same functions as PSP 7 or just most? If I'm going to have to learn a new photo editor program, would it be best for me to buy Photoshop? The main problem here is that I've heard it's expensive.
 02/22/2004 08:18:43 AM · #19
Yes, it is expensive, upwards of $600 to buy the full retail version. If you're a student you can get a discount. If you plan on making a living from your photography you probably should buy it, or Photoshop Elements, which will start you along the path of learning Photoshop. If you are content with something less for photography as a serious hobby Paint Shop Pro or it's equivalent is probably adequate at a considerably lower price, under $100. I haven't used Gimp but think it is comparable to Paint Shop Pro in features but not as easy to use. Gimp comes at the most attractive price of all, it's a free download.
 02/22/2004 10:22:56 AM · #20
I'm still at the "Wow, I just bought a camera, yay!" stage so I seriously doubt that my photos would be worth anything to anyone. I have, however, read some photo-enhancement tutorials on web sites - mostly involving Photoshop - and often find myself thinking "I wish I could do that...maybe it works in PSP, too" only to find that it doesn't.

If anyone knows of a PSP vs. PS site somewhere that compares the best that each is capable of, that would be useful. It would be nice to know how big or small a thing it is that PSP users are missing out on.
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