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12/03/2009 11:28:41 PM · #51 |
| Better cameras help horrible photos appear more vibrant. |
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12/03/2009 11:52:58 PM · #52 |
Originally posted by briantammy:
i've been wanting to upgrade my camera for some time now but i'm not sure is such an investment is worth it. I want my photography to improve but I don't know if I just lack the needed practice and technique or if the camera is holding me back. I believe a good photographer can make super shots with any camera but would he make considerably better images with a better camera?
Has anyone made a major upgrade and noticed a marked improvement undeniably linked to the change of gear? |
I haven't read all the thread yet but I bet you've gotten a lot of good answers.
I think you take some pretty good pictures btw.
I used to have the Oly 500 but upgraded to the 520. I do like it better BUT for me, I've found that when I upgraded the lenses, I got prettier results. But I don't consider myself a great photog so my lenses are a security blanket lol. This may have already been mentioned, but I see some people with the basic equipment doing some really great stuff - and I am jealous of them. (look at  gsal for example)
I'm guessing that it all comes down to practice, practice, practice! |
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12/03/2009 11:53:10 PM · #53 |
Originally posted by briantammy:
Originally posted by zeuszen:
After having extensively used about a dozen digital cameras over the years, this is what I come away with: my photographic future will not be occupied with DSLRs, despite the fact that they are great for certain predictable set-ups and situations that can be anticipated and while they are also quite affordable these days, I want as little technology to stand between me and my subjects. I want, instead, to engage with locale and people as directly and simply as possible, so I may be able to remain aware of where I am and what I shoot. If, as old man HBC believed, photography is all about the decisive moment, about syncing all the variables, then the better camera should be one that doesn't get in the way. |
This is quite an interesting line of thought and I'll have to agree pretty much. I'm not exactly sure i understand what is getting in the way. I can see how a large bulky camera can be an intimidating obstruction in portrait photography and a weighty burden when traveling and hiking, is that what you mean? Or are you referring to the endless buttons and complicated menus you must contend with? I have been shooting with my E-500 for about 3 years now and still have trouble making quick changes on the fly. I don't like using auto settings much because there always seems to be a compromise with that. I know there are ways around some of the auto-ness, like focus lock and exposure lock but for me it just gets too confusing. In time i suppose, with enough practice you become less and less distracted by the camera itself and focused more on the subject. |
Yes, it helps tremendously to familiarize yourself with the use and features of your camera, and if your camera is a DSLR, you can expect to familiarize yourself for a long time and, perhaps, you're still familiarizing when you upgrade to the next generation, which will renew the process. And, if you are, as a photographer, somewhat aesthetically inclined, it is conceivable that you might not find your Canon/Nikon DSLR design as useful as it is cluttered and awkward to operate compared to, say, a digital rangefinder. My 1DS II has 22 buttons, with a max. distance of approx. 9" between them, at the extremes. I, however, have only 10 fingers which span 8" at the extreme. Why this unnecessary complexity? To impress unsuspecting consumers who have never shot with a well-designed camera?
Design. Aesthetics.
Beauty, as has been said before, is aptness to purpose, no more, no less.
From the Leica site:
...allow the photographer to concentrate on taking pictures, not the controls. ...
Message edited by author 2009-12-04 00:05:34. |
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12/03/2009 11:59:51 PM · #54 |
Originally posted by zeuszen:
My 1DS II has 22 buttons, with a max. distance of approx. 9" between them, at the extremes. I, however, have only 10 fingers which span 8" at the extreme. Why this unnecessary complexity? To impress unsuspecting consumers who have never shot with a well-designed camera? |
My ex used to say that I liked computers because of all the buttons to press. Must also be why I like photography. More clusters of intimidating looking buttons! |
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12/04/2009 12:41:57 AM · #55 |
Originally posted by zeuszen:
My 1DS II has 22 buttons, with a max. distance of approx. 9" between them, at the extremes. I, however, have only 10 fingers which span 8" at the extreme. Why this unnecessary complexity? To impress unsuspecting consumers who have never shot with a well-designed camera?
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You can only get your hands 8" apart? I have never really had an issue with any of the 1 series camera's layouts, besides the annoyance of having to push two buttons on prior models to the 1DMKIII.
Matt |
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12/04/2009 12:50:44 AM · #56 |
Originally posted by colorcarnival:
Originally posted by briantammy:
i've been wanting to upgrade my camera for some time now but i'm not sure is such an investment is worth it. I want my photography to improve but I don't know if I just lack the needed practice and technique or if the camera is holding me back. I believe a good photographer can make super shots with any camera but would he make considerably better images with a better camera?
Has anyone made a major upgrade and noticed a marked improvement undeniably linked to the change of gear? |
I haven't read all the thread yet but I bet you've gotten a lot of good answers.
I think you take some pretty good pictures btw.
I used to have the Oly 500 but upgraded to the 520. I do like it better BUT for me, I've found that when I upgraded the lenses, I got prettier results. But I don't consider myself a great photog so my lenses are a security blanket lol. This may have already been mentioned, but I see some people with the basic equipment doing some really great stuff - and I am jealous of them. (look at gsal for example)
I'm guessing that it all comes down to practice, practice, practice! |
yes this thread has been very helpful. It actually is encouraging me to make the move although now I'm thinking I may just get a really nice lens for the oly maybe the 12-60. Although it seems like a lot of money to spend for my old e-500, it'll still be nice to have later when i upgrade to a nicer body.
Yes I know that there are some that can do really well with less and I feel like I can pull out a nice shot once in a while, I am just hoping to be able to do it more often and with less struggle. As much as I love my manual focus lenses, I believe they are making life a bit difficult. They just are not always there when I need them to be.
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12/04/2009 06:14:44 AM · #57 |
Hi, everyone, here is a question. If you are going to upgrade the camera, what are the features you want the most?
To me, they are:
1. high quality ISO, because my D70 only do well in ISO 200
2. Live View, because my eye vision is not very good, LV can help me to focus. It would be better if it can flip or rotate.
3. 10 mega pixels up, this is a stand feature on recent cameras, but D70 only has 6 mega pixels.
4. full frame, more sharp and lower noise than APSC
I like these features, but I know that they can make photo quality better, but can't make me a better photographer. :P |
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12/04/2009 06:45:39 AM · #58 |
Originally posted by briantammy:
This is quite an interesting line of thought and I'll have to agree pretty much. I'm not exactly sure i understand what is getting in the way. I can see how a large bulky camera can be an intimidating obstruction in portrait photography and a weighty burden when traveling and hiking, is that what you mean? Or are you referring to the endless buttons and complicated menus you must contend with? I have been shooting with my E-500 for about 3 years now and still have trouble making quick changes on the fly. I don't like using auto settings much because there always seems to be a compromise with that. I know there are ways around some of the auto-ness, like focus lock and exposure lock but for me it just gets too confusing. In time i suppose, with enough practice you become less and less distracted by the camera itself and focused more on the subject. |
Part of the beauty to me of the auto settings is that you can tailor them to do the work the way you want them to.....it took me a year to figure out how it is that I shoot most of the time, using full manual, but once I did, then I set many of the auto functions to work within the parameters that gave me the results I wanted. What's the use of having all that technology if you don't use it, and use it so that it works the way you want it to? It's a tool.....make it work FOR you!
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12/04/2009 06:51:41 AM · #59 |
Originally posted by zeuszen:
Yes, it helps tremendously to familiarize yourself with the use and features of your camera, and if your camera is a DSLR, you can expect to familiarize yourself for a long time and, perhaps, you're still familiarizing when you upgrade to the next generation, which will renew the process. |
If you're not driven to upgrade to the latest and greatest at the drop of a sales flyer, you may find that you will in fact get to know the controls of your camera.
To me, it makes no sense to upgrade without a reason, and just because a new model is introduced isn't a reason. I had my old camera for three years, and the only reason I upgraded was because I felt that I was asking more from it than it could give.
I also feel I completely got my money's worth out of it because it was rendered virtually useless by its course of helping me to grow to exceed its potential.
It's also funny to me that I didn't really make so much as a move forward as a step laterally as far as technology, but the quality and capability leap was immense. My familiarity level with the camera was already in place because of the familial resemblance in the controls & technology.
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12/04/2009 08:31:15 AM · #60 |
Does the camera make you better, it depends.
I started with DSLR̢۪s with the Canon 400D (that I still own),. Not happy with the kit lens bumped up to the 50 F/1.4 and 70-200 F/4L, now camera is as good as P&S, maybe better.
About a year and a half later I win a car at the fair, don̢۪t like the car, and the wife lets me sell it and buy camera gear. I buy a 5D, 70-200 F/2.8L, 16-35 F/2.8L and a 580 EXII flash, Photography is not much better for the year I own it.
Last spring the Economy crashes, house prices plummet, time to buy. 5D, both F/2.8̢۪s, and flash, are sold to build up savings account for house purchase. Now I̢۪m left with 400D, 50 and 70-200, NOT HAPPY!
Recently I purchased a used 1D mark II from a DPC member at a great price. First impressions? ( I am in concrete construction) This beast feels gooooood in my hands. Second, wow look at all these buttons, even without a owners manual I have it figured out in a little more than a hour. Image quality is outstanding.
Things I have learned.
1) Mega pixels, more is NOT better, I lost 5MP and have much better images.
2) Size matters, also the fit. Like any tool be it a hammer, pen, or typewriter it has to work with you (feel good).
3) Controls, look them over without the manual, if there is not even a glimmer of understanding, you are probably barking up the wrong tree.
You might already have your perfect camera, or maybe a side step will get you there. When you find your camera you will know it. |
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12/04/2009 08:46:36 AM · #61 |
| I'll say yes, it does improve your photography simply because the purchase of a new camera is motivational and inspires us to take more photographs. How long this motivation lasts is up to you though. Actually in my case, anything I buy that's photography based induces a barrage of ideas that gets my imagination going in full speed. Sometimes this spark in my imagination results in some really good ideas that I either try to photograph or I just write them down in my idea book that I have around all the time. When the time comes that my imagination is at full stop, I go through the idea book to re-motivate myself into another creative frenzy. |
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12/04/2009 09:53:45 AM · #62 |
Originally posted by Jac:
I go through the idea book to re-motivate myself into another creative frenzy. |
This kind of frenzy?
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12/04/2009 10:09:03 AM · #63 |
It's been the small things that have taught me to be a better photog. I started off with a cheap p&s, moved up to a better p&s, then finally got a DSLR. Once I got the 18-200mm I was able to push both D40 and lens to their limits, and enjoy doing so. The latter p&s had exactly the same number of mps as the D40, so I can't say an increase in mps has done anything.
Getting a tripod, after being bitched out enough for blurry/oof images, esp when I first joined, helped a bit, and I continue to pay attention if at least half my comments make the same general criticism of a shot. Digging up the old copy of A Short Course in Photography helped wean me off the safety of auto settings and back to Manual. Being on this site, of course, has been a huge help.
But I still credit Ryan for being by far the biggest reason my images have been improving somewhat drastically over the last few months. Once to twice a week we get together and shoot for hours. We send each other photos of what we shoot on almost a daily basis and offer critiques on entries. And the way he naturally is in terms of showing or explaining concepts and techniques fits perfectly with the way I need to be taught. I often refer to him as my private photography tutor, and I couldn't ask for a better one. |
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12/04/2009 10:12:18 AM · #64 |
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12/04/2009 10:14:00 AM · #65 |
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
Do you rent Ryan out? |
LOL! Maybe I should, so long as you return him in the condition you receive him :-) |
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12/04/2009 11:51:35 AM · #66 |
Originally posted by MattO:
Originally posted by zeuszen:
My 1DS II has 22 buttons, with a max. distance of approx. 9" between them, at the extremes. I, however, have only 10 fingers which span 8" at the extreme. Why this unnecessary complexity? To impress unsuspecting consumers who have never shot with a well-designed camera?
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You can only get your hands 8" apart? I have never really had an issue with any of the 1 series camera's layouts, besides the annoyance of having to push two buttons on prior models to the 1DMKIII.
Matt |
No, not my hands, my fingers. |
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12/04/2009 12:13:35 PM · #67 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by zeuszen:
Yes, it helps tremendously to familiarize yourself with the use and features of your camera, and if your camera is a DSLR, you can expect to familiarize yourself for a long time and, perhaps, you're still familiarizing when you upgrade to the next generation, which will renew the process. |
If you're not driven to upgrade to the latest and greatest at the drop of a sales flyer, you may find that you will in fact get to know the controls of your camera.
To me, it makes no sense to upgrade without a reason, and just because a new model is introduced isn't a reason. I had my old camera for three years, and the only reason I upgraded was because I felt that I was asking more from it than it could give.
I also feel I completely got my money's worth out of it because it was rendered virtually useless by its course of helping me to grow to exceed its potential.
It's also funny to me that I didn't really make so much as a move forward as a step laterally as far as technology, but the quality and capability leap was immense. My familiarity level with the camera was already in place because of the familial resemblance in the controls & technology. |
Yes, as I said above, it's very sensible to familiarize yourself with your equipment, and while I agree that it is possible to to achieve a relative comfort and facility with it, I also know that you can achieve the same goal with a decent rangefinder in a nearly laughable fraction of that time and to a much greater degree of satisfaction and utility. Hell, why catch a butterfly in a bear trap, when it is more efficient to use a net? |
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12/04/2009 12:47:54 PM · #68 |
Originally posted by zeuszen:
Hell, why catch a butterfly in a bear trap, when it is more efficient to use a net? |
8>)
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12/04/2009 07:25:43 PM · #69 |
Originally posted by bvy:
Originally posted by zxaar:
Originally posted by bvy:
My most impressive images to date were made with an empty cereal box. |
you forgot that pinhole lense. |
Oh, yes. The pinhole lens is made from a pie tin.
Check out tph1's profile. He buys old cameras from flea markets and develops his film in coffee. The results are often jawdropping. |
i recently bought pin hole lense from
//www.loreo.com/pages/products/loreo_lenscap.html
I shall put some samples from it when i get time. |
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12/05/2009 11:21:06 AM · #70 |
The only performance gain from a camera NOWADAYS is basically iso capacity. And maybe AF performance.
That's it.
Image quality? Not really since most cameras are extremely similar, unless you print enormously large prints. |
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12/05/2009 11:52:05 AM · #71 |
Originally posted by seraphkz:
The only performance gain from a camera NOWADAYS is basically iso capacity. And maybe AF performance.
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burst rate
noise performance across the entire ISO range
color accuracy
image stabilization
battery life
minimum/maximum shutter speed
LCD brightness/resolution
live view accuracy
metering
image processing
I'll stop there, but these are all performance criteria that camera manufacturers continue to improve upon -- some related to image quality, some not. Unless I'm not understanding... |
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12/05/2009 12:04:26 PM · #72 |
Originally posted by seraphkz:
unless you print enormously large prints. |
Very accurate.How much do we really print?
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12/05/2009 12:11:03 PM · #73 |
Originally posted by bvy:
burst rate
noise performance across the entire ISO range
color accuracy
image stabilization
battery life
minimum/maximum shutter speed
LCD brightness/resolution
live view accuracy
metering
image processing
I'll stop there, but these are all performance criteria that camera manufacturers continue to improve upon -- some related to image quality, some not. Unless I'm not understanding... |
I wish design would be on their list as well, preferably somewhere near the top, so we could actually take pictures when they happen instead of having to busy ourselves scrolling through multiple menus and growing twelve fingers. |
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12/05/2009 02:05:54 PM · #74 |
Originally posted by bvy:
Originally posted by seraphkz:
The only performance gain from a camera NOWADAYS is basically iso capacity. And maybe AF performance.
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burst rate
noise performance across the entire ISO range
color accuracy
image stabilization
battery life
minimum/maximum shutter speed
LCD brightness/resolution
live view accuracy
metering
image processing
I'll stop there, but these are all performance criteria that camera manufacturers continue to improve upon -- some related to image quality, some not. Unless I'm not understanding... |
I totally agree with you.
But. is it totally worth the upgrade?
Is my 5dmk2 really that much better than my original 5D? Now I pick up both cameras, and i don't even notice a difference in my end products. Unless I really need iso 6400 and above.
Don't get me wrong, I love the evolution of dslr's. And I'm totally in love with my 5Dmk2.
Message edited by author 2009-12-05 14:06:35. |
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