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03/14/2010 09:28:49 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
I think that's Animal Control -- usually a department of the local law enforcement (police, sheriff) agency. |
Not a bad idea, but the local Humane Society or some other eforcement branch with at least the word 'animal' in it, preferably pertaining to the prevention of cruelty to animals, would be much more effective, and likely more knowledgeable.
The local cops may know nothing more about a horse than the fact that hay goes in one end and comes out the other as poop. And this looks more like a case of neglect, as opposed to abuse; either willful or through ignorance I can't say. |
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03/14/2010 09:35:35 PM · #27 |
| Yup, AC is animal control (not everyone has an ASPCA) I believe the Dallas are has a decent one. Houston haw an awesome one, they are often featured on Animal Planet. In NM we have animal control for small animals (they can be called for large) and a "Brand Inspector" for the large ones. Both will seize animals (but they don't want to, there is no official place for large animals to go here) or help educate the owners (they try this first usually). It's too hard to prove neglect in many cases. Another avenue is to contact a local Equine Rescue to help or for information. |
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03/15/2010 04:54:28 PM · #28 |
Ok, here's proof that though an old horse may have a swayback, it can and imho should still look like a horse and not a walking coatrack.
The first horse is a 28-yr-old Thoroughbred mare, Cornish Kiss. Kiss belongs to a client of mine and, of all five horses owned by this couple, Kiss is not only the oldest - she is also the one most likely to drag me to the barn, and if the footing is good and I can run fast enough, she will canter in hand. 
I do not know anything about this grey gelding or his buddies, except that he too is quite old. At a guess, he may be a cross between a horse and a pony. As you can see, however, there is not a single protruding rib visible on him. 
Both horses are local animals, I did not have to drive more than 10 minutes to get to the pasture with the old grey gelding in it. Oh yes...I live in Canada, and though we had a fairly mild winter, it still gets pretty cold. So, if you have horses, common sense dictates that you get in enough hay for your horses to keep them from approximately October to May, roughly 1/2 bale to 1 bale per horse per day. Kiss and co get approximately 3/4 bale each a day.
Even in spring and summer, most owners feed their horses hay all year round, to supplement whatever pasture is available. Horses have very small stomachs, not vast multi-chambered stomachs like cows and other ruminants. They must have access to clean water and forage 24/7. |
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03/15/2010 06:48:22 PM · #29 |
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03/15/2010 06:49:29 PM · #30 |
| OK, the horse will be attended to. The local HS is in contact with the Sheriff Dept. who handles such matters out of the city, which this is. Others in the area know of the horse and claim it is being cared for. I don't believe so but that is what they say. Anyway, it will be researched. My bet is a veterinarian is milking these owners for all he/she can with total disregard for what is humane. |
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03/15/2010 07:05:21 PM · #31 |
| Yay, David! Thank goodness someone other than the owners will now look into the situation with this poor beast. It just frosted the heck out of me and breaks my heart at the same time when animals are mistreated, whether intentional or from shear ignorance. |
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03/15/2010 07:40:08 PM · #32 |
Here is part of the correspondence with Erath County HS........................
Erath County Humane Society View Contact
To: david ey
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Thanks! I don't really want to register there just to post..do you have an account there?
(DPChallenge.com)
If so, would please let them know that the Humane Society sent somebody by there to check the horse out and to determine if the law needs to be notified or not?
Animal Control won't be in charge because they only work within the city limits, it would be the sheriff who has jurisdiction out in the county.
But from what I heard from just asking around..a few people are familiar with the horse and said it's in good hands.
Thanks,
Birgit
Message edited by author 2010-03-15 19:40:57. |
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03/15/2010 07:41:28 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by bergiekat:
Yay, David! Thank goodness someone other than the owners will now look into the situation with this poor beast. It just frosted the heck out of me and breaks my heart at the same time when animals are mistreated, whether intentional or from shear ignorance. |
Sadly all too often people suffer from what I call 'Black Beauty' syndrome - they watched far too many Disney movies as children, and fall in love with the idea of horse ownership. However, the reality is that horses are NOT ATVs, nor are they 1000-lb doggies. They are big, expensive beasties who can kill you by accident.
God help you should a horse ever deliberately come gunning for you. In thirty years of experience, I have had 4 horses try to shorten my lifespan. Two tried to run me over, one tried to double-barrel me (deliver a kick with both hind feet at once) and another one tried to kick my head off.
So if anyone here is even entertaining the idea of horse ownership...please, please PLEASE go to the local riding stable. Visit the local co-op or tack store and ask for a reputable barn who takes on complete novices. Take lessons, learn how to ride and hopefully someone responsible will teach you basic horsemanship. Once you learn a bit about riding and horses, look into LEASING a horse. That means you will bear some, but not all, of the costs of horse ownership. If after say a year or two, you feel your wallet/budget/spouse/family can stand it, by all means go horse-shopping...with someone who has your best interests at heart, not the sellers!
Ok getting off my soapbox now... |
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03/15/2010 08:07:03 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by David Ey:
OK, the horse will be attended to. The local HS is in contact with the Sheriff Dept. who handles such matters out of the city, which this is. Others in the area know of the horse and claim it is being cared for. I don't believe so but that is what they say. Anyway, it will be researched. My bet is a veterinarian is milking these owners for all he/she can with total disregard for what is humane. |
Thank you. I got distracted by work today and forgot all about it. I assume you saw the map link I had put in the image, so you knew where it was. |
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03/15/2010 08:09:56 PM · #35 |
| Yep. That worked well. I thought you might have put it there to help. Hope you don't mind my nosing in. |
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03/15/2010 08:12:20 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by David Ey:
OK, the horse will be attended to. The local HS is in contact with the Sheriff Dept. who handles such matters out of the city, which this is. Others in the area know of the horse and claim it is being cared for. I don't believe so but that is what they say. Anyway, it will be researched. My bet is a veterinarian is milking these owners for all he/she can with total disregard for what is humane. |
Sad to say, yes, there are vets like that out there too...I knew of one who ran a giddyup-horsey operation. It was an appalling place, full of skinny wormy horses. People were constantly trying to steal horses from there, to give them a better home, but usually ended up with a farm dog's teeth snapping at them.
When the ASPCA finally raided his place, they found about 40 horses closed up in arena, literally 3 feet deep in manure, and at least one dead foal. The vet's son, however, whom I briefly dated some 20 years ago, was the polar opposite of his barbaric dad. |
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03/15/2010 08:39:01 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by David Ey:
Yep. That worked well. I thought you might have put it there to help. Hope you don't mind my nosing in. |
I had originally put it there as a reference for myself, since it took me 30 minutes of comparing my photos to google maps in order to figure out exactly where it was. It worked out fine this way too. Let me know if you hear back on it. |
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03/15/2010 08:40:27 PM · #38 |
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03/18/2010 03:27:13 AM · #39 |
Thank you David!
Sadly, they will likely talk to the owners who will claim it's just old and nothing will change. Hopefully the sheriff that goes will know something about horses (only 30/70 chance and not in the horse's favor). At least they will know that people have noticed and maybe they will take mercy and euthanize it or something after they get tired of calls on it. (best case scenario... they get it's teeth floated, worm it and give it some extra hay every day to go with it's over-grazed weedy pasture.) |
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03/18/2010 06:37:55 AM · #40 |
My mother-in-law has taken care of a number of seized, rescue horses. One horse that she had was in very bad shape when she got her -- sway-backed and very skinny. She didn't look anywhere near that bad! I've only seen the rescue horses, the other rescues at the place belonging to her friend, and her own healthy horses, but I've never seen one that bad.
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03/18/2010 09:53:44 PM · #41 |
Just keeping my fingers crossed that whoever pays them a visit actually knows what the hell is normal for a horse. Also if they are people who have often had AC/SPCA called on them about the poor old bonerack, maybe they will go ahead and put it down.
Sadly people can be incredibly selfish when it's time to let an animal go, they keep it tottering along for their sake, not the animal's.
Roughly a year ago, I had to show up at the front door of a client's house, in floods of tears, and TELL the owner to put Petey down. The poor old guy managed alright being slightly arthritic, but on that Monday morning, he was on three legs. THREE-LEGGED LAME. That means he was basically hopping along with the bad hind leg held up as best he could. When he could move. And I was appalled to learn he had been on three legs since the previous Friday afternoon. I had noticed the horse moving slightly stiffly that morning when I put him out, but he was still using his bad leg.
So what did the owners, two highly educated people - she is a topnotch headhunter, and he designs airports for a living - do? They stuffed him full of bute (horse aspirin), 20cc at a time, while they fought about whether or not to put him down. She didn't want to, he did. Did they even think of calling and asking my opinion or using me as a tiebreaker? Hell no. And the bute was probably the worst thing they could have done because he wouldn't have felt the pain.
That horse was in agony Monday afternoon. I came by to get some final pictures of him, and he was in incredible pain, so desperate to be free of the shell of what he had once been (a hitch horse in I think an 8-horse team of Clydes) you could truly see it in his eyes.
Thank gawd with Tuesday morning came the vet, who did the right thing (once we were able to get the poor horse out of his stall and into an area where the job could be done).
Oh, big floods of tears from the owner then, though I still suspect it was because she wasn't getting her way for once as opposed to losing the horse. I had my hands full with the companion horse, who was freaking out and yelling her head off for him. Tuesday afternoon the deadstock truck came. I am always impressed with the deadstock guys, they do their job fast, and treat the body with as much respect as they can. |
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03/18/2010 10:32:08 PM · #42 |
| off topic warning -- snaffles, did the companion horse(s) avoid the spot where the one horse passed on, or have you ever noticed that? |
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03/18/2010 11:03:43 PM · #43 |
Why do people think that an animal is suffering and should be put down! An animal has the same will to live as humans. THEY DON'T KNOW THEY'RE SICK AND THEY DON'T WANT TO DIE. When an animal is ready to die he will lie down and not try to get up. Until then they are not ready to die, so let them live their lives and mind your own business.
I hope if you get a bad back and develop crippling arthritis that your relatives don't decide to end your suffering. And please, if you don't know animals, don't own animals, have lived in a big city all your life or basically just don't have a clue, then keep your comments to yourself. |
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03/19/2010 01:35:28 AM · #44 |
Originally posted by crawdad505:
Why do people think that an animal is suffering and should be put down! An animal has the same will to live as humans. THEY DON'T KNOW THEY'RE SICK AND THEY DON'T WANT TO DIE. When an animal is ready to die he will lie down and not try to get up. Until then they are not ready to die, so let them live their lives and mind your own business.
I hope if you get a bad back and develop crippling arthritis that your relatives don't decide to end your suffering. And please, if you don't know animals, don't own animals, have lived in a big city all your life or basically just don't have a clue, then keep your comments to yourself. |
Your paragraphs conflict with each other--I do not agree that when an animal is ready to die he will lie down and not try to get up. My experience is different--horses with broken legs can damn near kill themselves trying to get up. Horses in severe pain from navicular disease or laminitis will spend a lot of the day lying down but will still stand and shift weight from limb to limb. Have you ever seen a horse in acute colic? They might roll but mostly stay upright. Biting at their bellies. In severe pain.
Agreed, snaffles, I hope the AC is qualified to evaluate this horse. If this horse's teeth are bad, it ought to be fed pelleted hay in the form of mush twice a day. Looks like either ouchy feet to me or a reluctance to move maybe due to severe arthritis. Can't judge from this photo whether he's a happy fella or not. Certainly the worst lordosis I've ever seen, and I agree with ristyz about how he ought to have more weight: vegetable oil, rice bran, Equine Senior, fat building products for hard keepers--there are lots of options and no excuse for a skinny older horse. |
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03/19/2010 01:45:46 AM · #45 |
They eyes often tell all (and a vet exam tells a whole lot more). I can't his eyes from here with that picture. However that horse is starving, never mind it's lordosis (the back) which doesn't really seem to bother them all that much.
That said. If the current owners do not or can not take care of the horse right then something should be done to ease it's suffering (starvation in this case) That horse is hungry enough to be wasting away from the inside out. Notice the hollow spots in his body aside from his ribs. I'd score that horse a 2 or on the henneke body condition score. (again completely regarding it's swayback)
Like I said: best case scenario is to get that horse some food and make sure it's able to eat it (tooth floating) and that parasites are not eating it all for him (de-worming). However this costs MONEY and many are not willing to spend it, therefore end it's suffering if that is the case. It's clearly suffering regardless of it's will and that isn't the horses fault, it's the owners (unless it has JUST been rescued).
It gets really complicated when it involves an animal that is not your own. So much hearsay and blame and barn blindness, regardless of the official body scoring system for horses that SHOWS YOU WITH PICTURES what is good and not good. Anywhere from 3.5 to 7 is an acceptable body condition. Below that he's starving, above that he's obese and will have a whole bunch of other issues if not at the time then they will develop. 4-6 is ideal and allows for the different levels of fitness and it's "job" (performance or pasture puff).
When you have an emaciated horse that is old. Rescuers often have to make a hard choice. How much money should they put into it (since the owner who supposedly cared didn't bother to keep it from getting to that point). How many younger and potentially more usable and adoptable horses that the rescue could save would benefit from the amount of money that an old crippled horse. Usually most rescues try to save them all regardless of condition or age. Sometimes the kindest thing is the hardest thing. I only know the point of view of rescuers because that is where most of the emaciated horses I see end up. Often 4-8 of them at a time. Nothing like a buncha good old fashioned group starvation! Rescues depend TOTALLY on donations, even for the horses taht the local official seize that turn over to them for care, to help clean up the mess that some sad people leave behind and right now it is epic and the problem is growing exponentially.
Horses are notoriously stoic. This one may well want to live, after all what living creature doesn't. It's his (and their and your) nature, he will continue to stand and go through all the motions until he literally falls over and can't physically rise again because his body has eaten all the muscle in him in an effort to survive. Nothing can read the animal and it's level of suffering without being there but it's surely easy to see that this one is suffering. IN the absence of it being able to get proper care, euthanizing it would be much kinder than letting it continue to slowly starve to death.
This horse doesn't have long on it's current path... (if it wasn't just rescued already) |
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03/19/2010 08:59:29 AM · #46 |
Originally posted by crawdad505:
Why do people think that an animal is suffering and should be put down! An animal has the same will to live as humans. THEY DON'T KNOW THEY'RE SICK AND THEY DON'T WANT TO DIE. When an animal is ready to die he will lie down and not try to get up. Until then they are not ready to die, so let them live their lives and mind your own business.
I hope if you get a bad back and develop crippling arthritis that your relatives don't decide to end your suffering. And please, if you don't know animals, don't own animals, have lived in a big city all your life or basically just don't have a clue, then keep your comments to yourself. |
Just for the record, I think at least two of the people commenting in this thread, and maybe more (not sure, didn't go back and count) are "professional" horse people.
Message edited by author 2010-03-19 08:59:50. |
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03/19/2010 09:57:47 AM · #47 |
Originally posted by karmat:
off topic warning -- snaffles, did the companion horse(s) avoid the spot where the one horse passed on, or have you ever noticed that? |
Not so much the area where the horse passed on, but it despends greatly - it seems the further down the pecking order, the less the horse is missed. Petey, even in his old age, was still the dominant horse and Brio never challenged him. She did inspect the area where his body had been, and nosed the corpse while he was still there. But mostly she'd get turned out in the morning, look around for him, and start to whinny. Very sad. However, the owner had bought a new horse some months previous, so he is now the boss of that herd of two.
PS: Yes, I am a professional horsewoman. I have thirty years' experience, almost 31 now, and have a roster of loyal clients who pay well for my services. I have galloped racehorses, worked at H/J barns in Canada, Italy and England, did my share of showing and eventing in my teens, have personally backed and started 70+ horses under saddle, put the ground manners on countless foals (everything from getting a halter on them and teaching them how to lead, to how to load onto a trailer). More than once I have worked with difficult horses, and even the crankiest vet in the area often recommends me to clients for my training services. I do NOT own a training facility - I go to where my clients keep their horses, either at home or at a stable, and work the horse there, with the client, with what the facility has to offer.
Any more questions? |
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03/19/2010 10:53:43 AM · #48 |
Originally posted by snaffles:
PS: Yes, I am a professional horsewoman. I have thirty years' experience, almost 31 now... |
Goodness gracious Snaffles... when did you start?... at the age of four or five :O)
Ray |
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03/19/2010 11:07:32 AM · #49 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by snaffles:
PS: Yes, I am a professional horsewoman. I have thirty years' experience, almost 31 now... |
Goodness gracious Snaffles... when did you start?... at the age of four or five :O)
Ray |
I didn't think she was even 31. |
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03/19/2010 11:39:02 AM · #50 |
| My age is there for all to see on my profile! I started riding at age 9, and backed my first green horse at age 13. By then I was a good enough rider and had enough horsemanship under my belt, I wasn't just a weekend warrior. But felt it was a little much to count from age 9 on, so I figured 13 was the better choice. |
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