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08/04/2003 07:45:30 AM · #26 |
comments and suggestions, take with salt shaker handy:
- from perceptual psychology, we learned that people have trouble with a subject when a large part of the foreground is out of focus.
it tends to 'feel' like something big and blurry is stuck in one's eye.
often, one can give a more pleasing impression by putting the nearest fg in focus. even if the dof is shallow and the bg starts to blur out, it tends to be less off-putting than having a large out of focus (oof) fg.
-- manual white balance setting can be used to eliminate the yellow tungsten color cast and give more pleasing, less jaundiced flesh tones.
-- it's entirely possible there might have been a sexism backlash, but that would just be speculation.
Interested to know what you thought of
my shot. .. Feel free to be real.
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08/04/2003 07:56:06 AM · #27 |
Originally posted by JasonPR:
jk Jon! I thought your shot was really good and a very creative angle. Filled the frame very very nicely. I think you just suffered from the "not in focus," crowd who don't understand the concept of DOF being used to highlight the "important" assets in a photo. |
True an untrained human eye usually wont accept a DoF where the foreground is not sharp, specially when the the foreground occupies the entire lower third... lower third where the eye comes to rest after the first scan of the image.
Brings me back to the old rant - people just don't take a second glance before voting....
[update]
Had not read Magnetic's post before - he has put it better
[/update]
Message edited by author 2003-08-04 07:57:42.
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08/04/2003 07:58:22 AM · #28 |
@Jon - I gave your shot a two. I hated the DoF and the fact she only has a nose and that the glasses hint at her eyes. There's nothing in this shot except ta's. That's fine and all, but the lack of foreground focus IS distracting. I didn't like the shot at all...the other shots you mentioned - I liked all but one better than yours.
Oh and I was one of the "lots-of-objects-bunched-together" that isn't creative.
:)
M
Message edited by author 2003-08-04 08:01:15.
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08/04/2003 08:08:49 AM · #29 |
Thanks for the advice Mag - I'm running with the sexism backlash! ;)
I liked your escalator shot. Excellent contrast, good symmetry and exceptional DOF.
I feel slightly too uninvolved in the shot though, which is what I was looking for in many of them. It's almost as if the bottom of the escalator gives me a 'way out' of the image whereas I want to be immersed in it. That said, I'm not sure how it could be improved as cropping it seems too untidy. It totally 'fills the frame' and meets the challenge for me.
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08/04/2003 08:13:16 AM · #30 |
the problem with naming specific shots which scored above yours that you believed "sucked more" is that it gives the impression that you think you know what's 'good' and 'bad' better than everyone else.
to which, I think, many would respond, "um bite me :)"..
Believe me, I know how easy it is to grasp onto the rationalization "i must be one of the few creative geniuses in a sea of bourgoisie philisteens" - it's my absolute favorite rationalization! - but it ultimately comes down to this:
If you want to do well ON THIS SITE, you have to try to grasp what makes a high scoring picture here and put those elements into your photo.
Alternately, you can keep doing what ever it is you've been doing and then rant about it in the forums ;) ..
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08/04/2003 08:22:51 AM · #31 |
Hey Mavrik, stop mincing your words and spit it out man!
//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=30798
I gave yours a 5 - for effort! (JK). It just didn't grab me. The subject matter is not engaging, the contrasts are uneasy on the eye and perhaps a little dirty in colour. Apart from that it's OK and meets the challenge technically - not that you care about my opinion though ;) |
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08/04/2003 08:28:43 AM · #32 |
Originally posted by Jon Lucas:
Originally posted by Koriyama:
Originally posted by Jon Lucas:
do you think the voting on this challenge mostly reflects the skill of photography or the appeal of the subject matter? |
Don't you think that there is a skill in choosing the subject matter, too? |
I do indeed, which is part of my point. I think that voting has been based in this particular challenge mostly on subject matter and not artistic merit. I'm also puzzled by some results - take these two for example:
//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=30160 - 18th position
//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=30636 - 91st position
Why the vast variation in position? I prefer the Ice Sculpture for subject matter and I just don't get the voting trend here.
I know it's discussed frequently but it doesn't mean these odd voters should get away with it! ;) |
Using someones art as only point in the photo is equal to stealing and those photos should be disqualified!
It's like me using a screen shot taken by my camera of this Monkey:
It is my picture ,right?
I have the EXIF data...
WRONG !!!
Message edited by author 2003-08-04 08:33:25.
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08/04/2003 08:35:02 AM · #33 |
Actually it isn't a monkey it's called a Guereza. Well that's what the sign at the zoo said anyway :-)
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08/04/2003 08:40:03 AM · #34 |
In this  photo the fox is watching the river and is not only point of the picture! |
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08/04/2003 08:51:52 AM · #35 |
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
the problem with naming specific shots which scored above yours that you believed "sucked more" is that it gives the impression that you think you know what's 'good' and 'bad' better than everyone else. |
Don't get me wrong here (it happens a lot it seems!) I make no claims to genius, or creative superiority - but what I do like is open speech. I've just got some blatant honesty from Mavrik that I wouldn't have otherwise (he left no comment regarding his hatred of my DOF) - and I make no statement that those images that have rated higher don't deserve to be there. It's what some read into it.
This kind of post opens people up to being more critical than usual and I find it gives me even more honest feedback. Sorry if it offends anyone - really. I write as I would speak face-to-face with no venom or malice, so you can take or leave it!
---
BTW pitsaman - Kiwiness has taken a much better shot than your Guereza - didn't you notice him next to you at the zoo?
Message edited by author 2003-08-04 08:52:10. |
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08/04/2003 09:03:57 AM · #36 |
Hey, why was I lumped in the group of "non-creative" photos?
//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=30293
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08/04/2003 09:17:10 AM · #37 |
I didn't categorise yours as 'uncreative' - merely that it rated considerably higher than my shot and was seeking reasons for that. Your angle is straight-on and the subject is clearly discernible, which is why I picked it for being very different from mine. No offence at all ;) |
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08/04/2003 09:20:41 AM · #38 |
Jon,
I felt similarly about my picture below which is one of my favourite ones.
I couldn't believe it got 129th place, especially as it got no negative comments.
My current pic in 'In the Garden' is on 7.1 at the moment, and I'm baffled as I entered it at the last moment and I can't see what is so inspired about it!
However,
I think it's really bad form to start dragging other people down because you feel you deserved to do better than them. It may be honest, but being honest does not always make it right. Try not to become so attached to your photos, in all art once you have created your photo (music composition, artwork, sculpture, whatever), let it go into the world without attachment!
Message edited by author 2003-08-04 09:25:09. |
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08/04/2003 09:32:28 AM · #39 |
Originally posted by BobsterLobster:
I think it's really bad form to start dragging other people down because you feel you deserved to do better than them. |
The problem with the forums (and I can't expect everyone to read every post) is that some posts are not read and things get repeated. I'm not dragging shots down at all, merely pointing out weird voting trends and trying to work them out - this is after all a challenge site - not a self-help group. It's competitive and competition means that people try to win or at least try to achieve good results. I like procrastination - it's fun. However, there are too many sensitive people out there who don't like that style of assessment so I won't ruffle any feathers next time. ;)
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08/04/2003 09:52:46 AM · #40 |
| Hmm... in my opinion, this site is FIRSTLY about improving as a photographer. The competitive aspect is secondary and for motivation... we don't win anything here except a pat on the back. Despite what you said in your last post Jon, it does sound like you've been putting other photos down in a case of sour grapes. Sorry if this is not the case, but it's how it looks. Does it help you to become a better photographer to learn how to win here? Not really, it's just a rough barometer of how you're developing as a photographer and an opportunity for fun and feedback. Remember, you're taking photos for YOU primarily, otherwise it stops becoming fun and your self-esteem gets too tied into what other people think of them. |
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08/04/2003 10:10:33 AM · #41 |
| Appreciate the viewpoints - no more to be said from me. ;) |
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08/04/2003 10:20:35 AM · #42 |
Just some comments on those shots that were named...
//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=30160
Sharp as a tack - statue has a lot of intensity and expressiveness with no ambiguity.
//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=30780
Sharp as a tack, unusual perspective on familiar object, beautiful lighting compliments 'arizona feel' of licence plate.
//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=30293
Sharp as a tack, gorgeous color, attractive lighting, strong emotional meaning for those who love to play music.
//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=30681
Very very detailed, gorgeous light, lush composition, practically tactile.
//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=30754
Unusual composition, interesting lighting color, technically very little to find fault with, religious iconography not overbearing.
//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=30731
Technically well-executed. Item with great meaning.
//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=30750
Message edited by author 2003-08-04 10:20:59.
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