Canon High-Mpx Rumors - DPChallenge Forums

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

09/28/2012 01:46:26 PM · #1

Some interesting stuff on Canon Rumors over the past few days regarding a possible large-pixel-count Canon, reportedly 46.1 Mpx (scroll down the page a little, there are three related posts).
Perhaps the most interesting aspect of this is the report that the sensor will have very good DR performance, reportedly better than the very good Nikon D800. This would be an interesting turn. The pixel pitch of such an animal would be just over 4 microns, so pretty small pixel area. I wonder what the full-well electron capacity will be, if the DR is actually as good as the rumors suggest?
The related rumors of a new sensor generation for Canon APS-C cameras seem to support the idea that Canon may be readying to roll out a sensor construction with significantly improved performance. I'll be watching this pretty closely, and I must say I hope the rumors have some meat in them.
Thoughts?

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

09/28/2012 01:50:00 PM · #2

Originally posted by kirbic:

Thoughts?

I don't think my computer would be able to open an image from a 46MP sensor ...

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

09/28/2012 01:53:29 PM · #3

Originally posted by GeneralE:

I don't think my computer would be able to open an image from a 46MP sensor ...

I was thinking that they might need to put another "n" in "Canon" :-)

Devinder

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

09/28/2012 03:36:15 PM · #4

yea i saw that.... its not appealing..Maybe when the current storage and processing tech about doubles for the mid-high range consumer itll be more practical. I don't know how S/N will work with that either. I dont have solid grasp on how pixel size/depth affects image quality but in general i hear bigger is better? I'd be interested in some shots from that type of tech (i m assuming its still 35mm)

Hikari

Canon EOS-50D

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

09/28/2012 04:15:45 PM · #5

I'm fairly certain that Canon is doing this to push Nikon and Sony's new sensor off its high-horse for the studio/landscape photographer. Event photographers need not be concerned, 46MP is way, way too much for portraits and weddings and the like.

Personally though, I'm pretty disappointed that this new sensor probably won't end up in a full frame for another four years when the 5DmkIII and probably 6D get an upgrade. I would LOVE for this sensor to end up in a full frame with 24MP or so. Incredible DR with the current noise capabilities of the 5DmkIII and supposed sensitivity of the 6D? You could shoot a cave wedding without a flash!

Tamron SP 24-70mm f/2.8 Di VC USD Canon Mount

09/28/2012 04:27:15 PM · #6

Originally posted by Devinder:

Surely storage will be a bit of a challenge. We're talking something like 55MB RAW files, so just under 20 images per gig (!) Now, with terabyte hard drives cheap as dirt, I don't think that's really an issue, but image transfer time could get pretty long if we don't have fast cards. Today's 90MB/s cards should be quite adequate, as long as we have a fast card reader. I don't see it as requiring outlandishly expensive hardware, but "better than average" definitely. The average consumer won't be interested in any case.
With regard to pixel size and quality, think about it this way. The rumored camera has almost exactly four pixels for every one pixel on the original 5D. The pixels are therefore 1/4 the area, and receive on average 1/4 of the photons. Assuming that the noise contributed by the electronics is the same, the total noise will go up. How much? One stop worth. That's quite a bit, but we need to recognize that if we down-sample the 46Mpx image to 12.7Mpx, the noise will be the same... well, actually a little less, because electronics noise will tend to average out.
We are approaching the point in sensor performance where the "shot noise" due to the statistics of photon arrival is becoming a limiting factor, so I believe that such a camera will not have substantially better noise performance, except for the very real possibility that the added electronics noise can be substantially reduced.
The rumored higher dynamic range also implies a greater full-well capacity per unit pixel area, and if that is true, the native ISO of the sensor would be lower, but the signal to noise ratio higher. The potential image quality could be staggering, particularly for landscape. Now, we could say that this would not be a killer low-light camera, but in fact it could be very good indeed if downsampled.

Mike

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

09/28/2012 04:36:20 PM · #7

Its rumored to be the 3D and out in a few months. We'll see. Im sure someone is drooling over it. The 21 I have now are more than I need.

gyaban

Canon EOS-1D X

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

09/28/2012 04:44:58 PM · #8

I would buy such tool in a heartbeat. I don't need high ISO capabilities, nor very high framerate, but I do need more pixels and more DR. 5D3 and 1DX have not much for me, so I decided to skip those. Right now with the 5D2, I often find myself stitching panoramas for more pixels, and raising DR by blending multiple exposures: it's a long work, often creating imperfections that need handling. If this new camera really can do what is rumored to, it would help me greatly with what I like to do. Really looking forward to it.

Alex_Petrini

Sony Alpha a7R III

Sony FE 24-70mm f/2.8 GM

09/28/2012 05:54:18 PM · #9

DR -> Dynamic Range?

gyaban

Canon EOS-1D X

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

09/28/2012 05:55:07 PM · #10

Originally posted by Alexkc:

DR -> Dynamic Range?

yes.

Tamron SP 24-70mm f/2.8 Di VC USD Canon Mount

09/28/2012 07:34:45 PM · #11

Originally posted by gyaban:

...Right now with the 5D2, I often find myself stitching panoramas for more pixels, and raising DR by blending multiple exposures...

Imagine where I'm at with the original 5D! Yes, I agree, it is something to get excited about.

Mike

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

09/28/2012 08:27:07 PM · #12

Originally posted by gyaban:

the 800 pixel limit here must be killing you..

Message edited by author 2012-09-28 20:27:14.

vawendy

Sony Alpha 1

Sony FE 200-600mm f/5.6-6.3 G OSS

10/02/2012 11:02:57 PM · #13

Ah... big deal. :P

Dark Energy Survey just had first light this summer. 4 Meter telescope with 570 MP camera.

MattO

Nikon D4

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II

10/02/2012 11:31:20 PM · #14

Originally posted by mike_311:

Originally posted by gyaban:
I would buy such tool in a heartbeat. I don't need high ISO capabilities, nor very high framerate, but I do need more pixels and more DR. 5D3 and 1DX have not much for me, so I decided to skip those. Right now with the 5D2, I often find myself stitching panoramas for more pixels, and raising DR by blending multiple exposures: it's a long work, often creating imperfections that need handling. If this new camera really can do what is rumored to, it would help me greatly with what I like to do. Really looking forward to it.

the 800 pixel limit here must be killing you..

Not by looking at his list of Ribbons....

HarveyG

Nikon D800

Sigma 120-300mm f/2.8 EX APO IF HSM for Nikon

11/19/2012 09:07:33 AM · #15

Pretty Exciting. I have a few photographer friends who have the funds and bought into the D800 @36MP. They all counter the benefits of so many pixels with the fact that it drastically shows up any flaws you as a photographer have made, such as in studio with poor lighting, dirty backdrops, dirty feet, dirt under finger nails of model, poor amateur make up etc. So if you are a FAUX-tographer beware.

Personally I'd probably be happy around the 24-40MP range for wildlife images, especially if the DR and SN can be controlled incamera before PP such as with the D3 range from Nikon and the top end Canon's. I'm eagerly awaiting Nikon's latest DX offering in the Pro Range, that is the D300s replacement.

For jewellery, studio and landscapes the more MP the merrier however I only have so many walls that are 8 feet wide to hang a few canvases/prints on to showcase the IQ/use of the pixels. After that I need to buy a warehouse to show off the monster prints. Street side billboards the past few years are all looking good shot with 6, 10, 12, 24MP DSLR's or the larger format Phase1's or Hasselblad's

How big a monitor $$$ do I need and how far away from it must I sit to be able to enjoy the IQ?

I would guess that for Astronomy 36+ MP is "manna from heaven" pardon the pun.
Some of my bird photo edits on a 12MP sensor end up over 100MB. 36MP will = 300MB per image? I need then to upgrade to 16MB RAM and a much faster i7 processor and a 64 bit O/S or I will triple my editing time...Do I really need this cost in time and $$$?
3 HDD's with automated backups etc means I need a lot of drive space and time. Film was simpler!

Message edited by author 2012-11-19 09:10:37.

Canon EF-M 22mm f/2.0 STM Lens

11/19/2012 12:49:21 PM · #16

It's looking now like the High-Mpx Canon will be at the 1-series level, which probably means stratospheric pricing. Supposedly there are test cameras in the wild, in 1Dx bodies. The rumored body is supposed to be larger than the 5D III, but smaller than the 1-series, with new sensor technology. We will probably have to wait for the March/April timeframe to find out.

Spork99

Canon EOS M6 Mk II

11/19/2012 02:16:19 PM · #17

It's all interesting, but I'm sticking with my 5DmkII for the foreseeable future.

Olympus 12-40mm f/2.8 Pro

11/19/2012 02:38:53 PM · #18

Originally posted by Spork99:

It's all interesting, but I'm sticking with my 5DmkII for the foreseeable future.

LOL, I resemble that remark, and I've still got an original 5D! Actually, I have considered getting a second body, either another 5D or a 5Dii, but it is low on my priority list at the mo.

Ann

Olympus OM-D E-M1

11/19/2012 03:28:11 PM · #19

My opinion after a couple of months with a D800....

Bad technique, soft lenses, dirty fingernails, etc. Yes, I can see all of those things if I'm pixel peeping, but that's just an artifact of having so much resolution. If I scale the image down to 50%, I have the images I had before, except with more DR and less noise. But if I have good technique, sharp lenses, and clean fingernails, I have the potential of getting so much more than what I had with the old camera. My experience is that yes, I see problems I didn't see before, and I'm in the process of swapping out at least one lens that was perfectly fine on the D300 for a better one, but at the sizes I printed at before, everything is at least as good as it was before, and usually noticeably better.

Now, as far as handling those huge, huge images. Yes, RAW images are 40-50MB. Each. Before editing. It was important to spend a couple hundred bucks on fast cards and a fast reader, and I can see that I'm going to be buying hard drives at a faster rate, but drives are cheap, and the laptop that I bought from Costco a year ago for $800 seems to have enough processing power for image editing.

My overall opinion of the camera however is...megapixels? Shrug. But dynamic range? OMG! Give me more of that!