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05/09/2008 12:35:26 PM · #251 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
snip . .
It's kinda funny, but it took me a long time to realize that as soon as I respected, and understood, others' right to have faith and belief in their own way, the more comfortable and at peace I am with my own. |
A helpful thought from  NikonJeb
Perhaps with that thought in mind we can get this thread back to a place where Christians can say 'hello' to each other if they want to ?
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05/09/2008 12:48:17 PM · #252 |
Originally posted by Jac:
You do understand that the old testament was tailered/modified to represent what the authors wanted you to believe, after the supposed birth of JC? They modified those prophecies after he was born, not before. The coming of christ wasn't known before his birth, only hundreds of years after his death were the prophecies refined to accommodate todays belief system to include JC. In the old testament christ is referred to as the messiah, not the son of a god. |
What I understand is that there is no way that what was written can be verified today, and that this is one book that has probably been translated and interpreted more than any other in print.
I noticed some quotes in previous posts with little appendices like KJV denoting a specific iteration/version/publication of the book......which one is the correct, literal version?
Therefore, I pretty much discount anything that anyone states as "Gospel" or "True to the original word" since the veracity of both will always be in question.....and I generally am wary of anyone who has "The Answer".
My point is that I believe that we must be open to the possibility that what any of us understands or believes may be different from the next person......that doesn't necessarily make it wrong, just different.
Vive le difference!
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05/09/2008 12:53:16 PM · #253 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
snip . .
It's kinda funny, but it took me a long time to realize that as soon as I respected, and understood, others' right to have faith and belief in their own way, the more comfortable and at peace I am with my own. |
Originally posted by Jedusi:
A helpful thought from NikonJeb
Perhaps with that thought in mind we can get this thread back to a place where Christians can say 'hello' to each other if they want to ? |
Okay.....I have a question.
I do not consider myself a Christian in the sense of worshipping him as my God, but I have an enormous respect for his teachings and the history of love, compassion, and hard work that he did while here.
I like to think that his teachings to be gentle, kind, loving, and helping to my fellow man are extremely good and important teachings to be the best kind of good and decent people.
I have always felt that were he here now, he would be much more about the principles he wanted to teach than about himself as an object of worship.
Does this make any sense to you who call him your God?
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05/09/2008 01:34:06 PM · #254 |
Great question!
to answer the relevant command of the Bible says essentially this
Love God and love your neighbor it doesn't mention Jesus directly.
Jesus always said of Himself.... "follow me" or do what I do (to paraphrase) |
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05/09/2008 06:22:31 PM · #255 |
| I don't pray to Jesus. I pray to the Father with Jesus as my intercessor. I pray in Jesus' name (with his character and motivations). He taught us how to pray. He washed the feet of the disciples and called them friends. He is the way to the Father. He speaks the truth. His ways lead to eternal Life. All that is necessary for Him to intercede on your behalf is that you BELIEVE that he was the only begotten Son of God. We are all Sons and Daughters of God but he was the only begotten one born of a virgin. He did not come to be worshiped but to give his life as a ransom for many. He came to give glory and honor to the Father who sent him. He was human in every respect in the physical being but 100% divine in Spirit which is why he could be without stain of sin and thus serve as that unblemished sacrifice for all of us. |
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05/10/2008 05:48:52 AM · #256 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Okay.....I have a question.
I do not consider myself a Christian in the sense of worshipping him as my God, but I have an enormous respect for his teachings and the history of love, compassion, and hard work that he did while here.
I like to think that his teachings to be gentle, kind, loving, and helping to my fellow man are extremely good and important teachings to be the best kind of good and decent people.
I have always felt that were he here now, he would be much more about the principles he wanted to teach than about himself as an object of worship.
Does this make any sense to you who call him your God? |
I do belive He would be much more about the principles and not the worship of Him (more on the worship of His Father). He came to be a human and did the healings and teachings to show how God loved his people. He came to us not to be worshipped but to help us learn of God's love for us and His desire to have us with him in Heaven.
---more personal note...you sound like you are on the right path to being a Christian, your beliefs in being gentle, kind, loving and helping to your neighbor is certianly what it is about. But remember it isn't (just) about our actions, for we can't come to live with God by works alone, it's also about the faith, belief and trust in God. Hope this helps. |
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05/10/2008 07:01:00 AM · #257 |
Guys, most Christians (that I know personally) do not bother to talk to atheists about their faith in Jesus Christ because of the vitriol that I consistently face when people who are just a narrow-minded as I am base their lives just as much as I do on just as many presuppositions that I confess/pontificate that I have, but they pontificate that they don't...
Therefore, I shall now step aside and yield the floor to one of my mentors in this area, Lee Stroebel.
Message edited by author 2008-05-10 07:08:29.
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05/10/2008 09:16:03 AM · #258 |
Originally posted by sabphoto:
I do belive He would be much more about the principles and not the worship of Him (more on the worship of His Father). He came to be a human and did the healings and teachings to show how God loved his people. He came to us not to be worshipped but to help us learn of God's love for us and His desire to have us with him in Heaven. |
That's pretty much the way I believe the whole thing went as I understand it, and yes, I believe Jesus to be a child of God, yet I'm unsure as to how much more than that he may be/have been.
I attribute that to my own ignorance, and relative lack of importance in the big picture as to getting the memo.......I don't really feel that my confirmation one way or the other is paramount.
What is, IMO, the salient point, is that I live in a manner corresponding to the way I understand God would have me live.
I most definitely do believe in a good, kind, loving, and merciful God, I have an awful lot of evidence of grace in my life to validate that......He's let my dumb @$$ live in spite of my efforts and behaviors to the contrary, and I have fortunately woken up enough to realize that perhaps He has plans for my life that I aspire to uphold.
Originally posted by sabphoto:
---more personal note...you sound like you are on the right path to being a Christian, your beliefs in being gentle, kind, loving and helping to your neighbor is certianly what it is about. But remember it isn't (just) about our actions, for we can't come to live with God by works alone, it's also about the faith, belief and trust in God. Hope this helps. |
Part of what the wonder for me in life at this point is the journey, faith, and belief that there is some purpose for my being, and that it's not about me at all, but what I am being guided to do and be.
The search is awesome.....no notes in stone, just subtle hints and challenges to be the kind of person God wants me to be.
I fall short, but part of what I believe to be grace is that I see where I stray, and am given the opportunity to, hopefully, learn and grow from my own human frailties.
I guess what I'm saying is that my faith, and beliefs, have led me to have solace and comfort in God, but without any need to do anything but try, my very best, to follow the guidance, and live peacably and lovingly among my brothers and sisters here on earth.
Some days that's hard for a flawed guy like me, but some days there is no question in my mind whatsoever that I have been truly, truly blessed.
And that is never more apparent to me than when an image comes out of my camera capturing something of beauty that He has allowed me to see.
Like this.......[thumb]427091[/thumb]
It's not the parting of the Red Sea, nor an immaculate birth, but it's a miracle of beauty to an ordinary, hopefully good man like me.
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05/10/2008 10:00:24 AM · #259 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
It's not the parting of the Red Sea, nor an immaculate birth, but it's a miracle of beauty to an ordinary, hopefully good man like me. |
"Look how beautiful are all the things that He does:
His signature is the beauty of things."
ΓΆ€” Robinson Jeffers |
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05/13/2008 02:28:48 AM · #260 |
| Totally off topic here but was wondering if anybody else listens to Dr. Charles Stanley? |
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05/13/2008 02:38:19 AM · #261 |
How about Murray Arnold and the Shepherds Chapel? If you do listen to someone outside of your own church who is it?
edited for clarity
Message edited by author 2008-05-13 19:56:37. |
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05/13/2008 05:30:25 AM · #262 |
Originally posted by dponlyme:
Totally off topic here but was wondering if anybody else listens to Dr. Charles Stanley? |
Dr. Charles Stanley has been a mainstay in my spirit growth and encouragement during the past quarter-century, since my days in college at Tennessee Temple University in Chattanooga, TN. I used to listen to him with a small earplug attached to a radio on my belt while I walked the beat as a parking lot security officer of Highland Park Baptist Church, a huge church with parking lots all over campus.
Dr. Stanley's audio series on the subject of Spiritual Gifts was bought from another student for $10 and is still a standard for my understanding of the functioning of the Body of Christ. (I hope that my approval of him may be seen as a blessing...) :)
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05/13/2008 07:17:46 AM · #263 |
Originally posted by dponlyme:
Totally off topic here but was wondering if anybody else listens to Dr. Charles Stanley? |
I love Dr. Stanley, and Joel Olsteen. They are both so awesome to listen to.
Nikonjeb...wow. It sounds like you have a really great story and are a great person. Keep looking for that (some times hidden) beauty that God gives us everyday and you'll never be disappointed. I'm like you, I love when I take a picture and it turns out to be even more beautiful than I expected (still never as beautiful as the real thing but better than I expected to take). I find myself thanking God so often after a day out shooting, even if I don't get any shots off I still thank Him for the opportunity.
This is one I just took last night and love it.
Message edited by author 2008-05-13 07:25:00. |
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05/13/2008 07:53:35 PM · #264 |
Originally posted by sabphoto:
Originally posted by dponlyme:
Totally off topic here but was wondering if anybody else listens to Dr. Charles Stanley? |
I love Dr. Stanley, and Joel Olsteen. They are both so awesome to listen to.
Nikonjeb...wow. It sounds like you have a really great story and are a great person. Keep looking for that (some times hidden) beauty that God gives us everyday and you'll never be disappointed. I'm like you, I love when I take a picture and it turns out to be even more beautiful than I expected (still never as beautiful as the real thing but better than I expected to take). I find myself thanking God so often after a day out shooting, even if I don't get any shots off I still thank Him for the opportunity.
This is one I just took last night and love it.
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Love the pic and verse.
I would encourage you to listen to the first two videos and see where the two differ. It's quite a big difference. Then listen to the third video.
//www.youtube.com/v/WqZRjP8C2tA&hl=en
//www.youtube.com/v/MfwYU2pmWYQ&hl=en
//www.youtube.com/v/BJe7xQSKMoA&hl=en
Message edited by author 2008-05-13 20:00:43. |
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05/14/2008 07:16:05 AM · #265 |
Thanks, Darren! Your research is stellar! These three videos highlight the problems I have had in my own Christian walk! I have tried to stay true to the Word of God while trying to "get along" in the world, but no matter how sweetly I have tried to present the Gospel of Jesus Christ as the only Savior for Mankind, I have always been met by antagonism. I now know that ANYTIME someone is strongly negative to me, their real anger is directed to Jesus Himself.
Thank You for the encouragement! I will from now on refuse to "hear" that I am supposedly wrong in my presentation, especially from those whose strong negative response speaks loudly that they themselves KNOW in their "hearts of hearts" that Jesus is the Only Answer and just don't want Him to be the Answer!
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05/14/2008 03:30:33 PM · #266 |
Originally posted by 777STAN:
Thank You for the encouragement! I will from now on refuse to "hear" that I am supposedly wrong in my presentation, especially from those whose strong negative response speaks loudly that they themselves KNOW in their "hearts of hearts" that Jesus is the Only Answer and just don't want Him to be the Answer! |
The only caution I would have for christians with a "zeal" to share the good news and repeatedly bang some non-believers over the head with the message of the gospel, is to remember that even Christ himself (with the miracles recorded as witnessed) did not convert all who met him. Even his own chosen diciples denied knowing him. If Christ could not change every heart, then I think it is a bit presumptuous on any believer's part to feel that they are "ordained" to change the world. Christ's message was clear (to me). [paraphrase] "go and share the gospel, enter a town and knock on their doors, but if they reject you and your message, then stomp the dust off your sandals as your leave that town"
in other words...
Our charge is to share the news. The decision/responsibility to accept or reject the message lies with the recipient, not the messanger. Feel free to pray for those who choose to reject, but their decision is not your responsibility. Just as Christ allowed those who heard his message to decide for themselves, so must you - in my opinion. Part of the criticism leveled against christians and our history, stems from those times when we "forced" / "coerced" / "christianized" pagan rituals / "murdered" for the purpose of conversion. This is I believe, an unfortunate part of our history that serves to drive away believers as it allows them evidence contrary to our teacher's teaching.
One purpose is to share the gospel, not save anyone. That decision rests between them and Jesus. Many will not receive the gift of life. Even some that witnessed his life, chose to reject him. Many children reject their parents love, instead preferring a false security with naysayers. That's just the way it was, is and will be.
edit to add; this is my daily prayer -
Father in heaven, Holy is your name.
Your Kingdom will come and your "Will" will be done on earth as it is done in heaven.
Give me today my daily instruction and forgive me my sins as I forgive those who injure, insult, and persecute me.
Lead me away from temptation and deliver me from the powers of Evil.
Amen.
Message edited by author 2008-05-14 15:44:42. |
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05/14/2008 09:35:13 PM · #267 |
Societal mores have changed,...not Truth! Radio, TV, internet & print advertisements slap me in the face daily with things that I find highly-offensive, but I'm not supposed to say anything about that because it is First Amendment Rights/Free Speech. However, as a Christian I speak confidently about the greatest Person in HIStory IMHO, and my First Amendment Rights are to be summarily stolen...I don't think so!
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05/15/2008 03:16:14 AM · #268 |
Originally posted by 777STAN:
Societal mores have changed,...not Truth! Radio, TV, internet & print advertisements slap me in the face daily with things that I find highly-offensive, but I'm not supposed to say anything about that because it is First Amendment Rights/Free Speech. However, as a Christian I speak confidently about the greatest Person in HIStory IMHO, and my First Amendment Rights are to be summarily stolen...I don't think so! |
No one has the right (or at least should have the right)to Silence you as long as you are not being personally threatening and are obeying the message board rules but it is also the case what flash says. We cannot force people to be saved or to accept Jesus as their savior. We can and should present our testimony to those that are not saved but the Bible also says that we should do so with Love and gentleness in our heart and in our words, forgiving those who persecute and mock us as Jesus did while on the cross: "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do". We should stand firm in our convictions and not be silenced as we navigate some very rocky terrain here at DPC and also and very importantly we should not take things personally (as admittedly I have done in the past)but to realize the real cause of the outrage that we have witnessed by some. Your brother in Christ DP. |
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05/15/2008 08:26:43 AM · #269 |
Originally posted by 777STAN:
However, as a Christian I speak confidently about the greatest Person in HIStory IMHO, and my First Amendment Rights are to be summarily stolen...I don't think so! |
Might be worth considering that you don't have a first amendment right for anyone to pay you any attention or bother listening to you, so how you want to present your message is certainly up to you. |
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05/15/2008 09:33:33 AM · #270 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by 777STAN:
However, as a Christian I speak confidently about the greatest Person in HIStory IMHO, and my First Amendment Rights are to be summarily stolen...I don't think so! |
Might be worth considering that you don't have a first amendment right for anyone to pay you any attention or bother listening to you, so how you want to present your message is certainly up to you. |
Hey, Friend, I agree with you 100%! You are a highly intelligent individual!
The fact is that the evangelism that I was taught to present in my youth has been strongly mellowed by me in everything I have said here at DPC, but I have intentionally not diluted the message to the extent that I personally see it being diluted in the emerging church!
I would be considered liberal by my teachers, but at least I am awake to the downward spiral of social ills.
You are so right! If people don't like my message, then they are more than welcome to walk away! However, I do confess a reticence to be any less a maverick than Jesus was Himself during His earthly sojourn...
Feminists used to say, "We're fierce! We're feminists, and we're in your face!"
Gays have said, "We're here! We're queer! So, get used to it!"
The old E.F. Hutton ad said, "'Well, my broker is E.F. Hutton...(dead silence with everybody in the restaurant leaning in to hear)...and E.F. Hutton says...' When E.F. Hutton talks, people listen!"
Apparently, the communists have merely changed a couple of words in their old mantra of "Christianity is bad! Communism is good!" Now, it's "Christianity is bad. Everything else is good!"
A Christian, like me, stands up to say a factual sentence like "I trust Jesus Christ as my personal Savior." That statement of fact is then twisted maligned and even cringed at by other Christians who tell me (actually believing their own words) that somehow I am angry, hate-filled, antagonistic, and totally socially unacceptable.
The only things that have changed are Society's mores, not Truth! :) |
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05/15/2008 10:53:58 AM · #271 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
How is a single thread where Christians can share fellowship with each other any more "divisive" of the community than a thread where Nikonians can share tips and Nikon experiences with each other? |
Well, I haven't seen people who prefer Nikon being told 'if you don't like it you probably want to go try one of those free sites' and similar. Mind you the attempts at proselytizing are moving out beyond one thread. |
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